We're going to be runners up again. :-(

[redgunamo]

Then why do refs still hate us?

The only reason they appear to like and respect Declan Rice is precisely because he is NOT captain so they actually have very little to do with him. However, were he contractually required to be constantly in their ear waving imaginary cards about, all that would change.

Perhaps, despite having received the most egregious red card in history, he may be seen as honest, stolid, a stalwart; one of the decent (for a Londoner) guys. He doesn't cause them any problems.

In any case, referees are never going to win us the league (does a single one of them actually come from London or even the South?), we are going to have to be good enough to do it on our own. The modest, unassuming ?degaard will be fine.

[Peter]

The only reason they appear to like and respect Declan Rice is precisely because he is NOT captain so they actually have very little to do with him. However, were he contractually required to be constantly in their ear waving imaginary cards about, all that would change.

Perhaps, despite having received the most egregious red card in history, he may be seen as honest, stolid, a stalwart; one of the decent (for a Londoner) guys. He doesn't cause them any problems.

In any case, referees are never going to win us the league (does a single one of them actually come from London or even the South?), we are going to have to be good enough to do it on our own. The modest, unassuming ?degaard will be fine.

We are not asking refs to win us the league. Just to treat us with the same level of contempt they do every other team.

And it may have been the most egregious red card in history but only until the MLS one.

Which is kind of the point.....

[Peter]

Name me a finer C20th work of history that 1066 and all that, P. Go on. I should go back to it as I reckon there are loads of jokes I missed aged c.10 and 20. Reading after A-levels when I'd read it ten was eye-opening, so there must be loads more joke I get now.

It should be compulsory reading at school before you have any actual lessons. Though I guess you'll be gutted when you find out William wasn't actually an orange.

I'm not really a fan of history as comedy. For the same reason I always thought The Darkness were a bunch of ****ers.

Is this supposed to be funny? Or is it supposed to be good? Because it appears to be neither...

History, like rock n roll, is too serious to be taken lightly.

Apart from Spinal Tap, obviously. And Bad News.

[redgunamo]

Just to treat us with the same level of contempt they do every other team.

That cannot happen because we are from London and the Arsenal are the most prominent southern upstarts, in their view. The vast majority of English players come from the capital and the South, yet, incredibly, that is almost entirely reversed when it comes to elite referees and linesmen; VAR and so on. Northerners feel they have a right to always win, that they always deserve to win.

Wonder why so many titles are won by Liverpool and Manchester United? And how many of those triumphs were actually memorable? It's as though they can almost sleepwalk their way to the top. However when WE win the league, we have had to make history; Invincibles, only one defeat in '91, Double winners etc. Even Chelsea with Roman's financial doping and their record low Goals Conceded.

It's the same everywhere so there's probably nothing to be done about it, except being good enough to occasionally overcome that built-in bias. In Germany, Bayern have won over half the Bundesliga titles, ever! Successful clubs from the Italian south are Napoli and other giants like Lecce, possibly Cagliari. Spain; everybody knows about.

[redgunamo]

I'm not really a fan of history as comedy. For the same reason I always thought The Darkness were a bunch of ****ers.

Is this supposed to be funny? Or is it supposed to be good? Because it appears to be neither...

History, like rock n roll, is too serious to be taken lightly.

Apart from Spinal Tap, obviously. And Bad News.

Apparently Spinal Tap was based on The Sweet. Unpleasant business, mentioning it at home though as The Sweet is one of the wife's favourites lol

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

I'm not really a fan of history as comedy. For the same reason I always thought The Darkness were a bunch of ****ers.

Is this supposed to be funny? Or is it supposed to be good? Because it appears to be neither...

History, like rock n roll, is too serious to be taken lightly.

Apart from Spinal Tap, obviously. And Bad News.

I can't even remember who The Darkness are. Name vaguely rings a bell.

But name me one serious historian who has encapsulated the Civil War's "Wrong but Wromantic vs Right but Repulsive" in a solitary sentence better than those two did?

Genuine question. When I did the W3K {as we must call the Civil War now*} I didn't see it summed up as neatly as that. Good satire only works if it nails the point. And Yeatman and Sellar turn it up to 11 on that front.

*When Johnny comes marching home again, he's gonna be really ****ed off that it's been renamed the War of the Three Kingdoms. Hope he doesn't get off at the wrong bus or underground stop as a result.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

I'm not really a fan of history as comedy. For the same reason I always thought The Darkness were a bunch of ****ers.

Is this supposed to be funny? Or is it supposed to be good? Because it appears to be neither...

History, like rock n roll, is too serious to be taken lightly.

Apart from Spinal Tap, obviously. And Bad News.

PS - HANG ON:

"I'm not really a fan of history as comedy."

Which means you either haven't read or don't appreciate the Flashman books.

In which case burn, heretic.

{You must have read this Burma memoir, Quartered Safe Out Here? That's when you realise how he went native, as all civilised Brits do in India. But it explains why Flashman's always getting bailed out by Indian troops. cf Kipling's Grave of the Hundred Head.}

[Peter]

That cannot happen because we are from London and the Arsenal are the most prominent southern upstarts, in their view. The vast majority of English players come from the capital and the South, yet, incredibly, that is almost entirely reversed when it comes to elite referees and linesmen; VAR and so on. Northerners feel they have a right to always win, that they always deserve to win.

Wonder why so many titles are won by Liverpool and Manchester United? And how many of those triumphs were actually memorable? It's as though they can almost sleepwalk their way to the top. However when WE win the league, we have had to make history; Invincibles, only one defeat in '91, Double winners etc. Even Chelsea with Roman's financial doping and their record low Goals Conceded.

It's the same everywhere so there's probably nothing to be done about it, except being good enough to occasionally overcome that built-in bias. In Germany, Bayern have won over half the Bundesliga titles, ever! Successful clubs from the Italian south are Napoli and other giants like Lecce, possibly Cagliari. Spain; everybody knows about.

Or winning 2-0 at anfield in the last minute (and they tried to disallow the first goal).

So you are saying we are ****ed no matter what we do?

That isnt a terribly nice thought

[redgunamo]

Or winning 2-0 at anfield in the last minute (and they tried to disallow the first goal).

So you are saying we are ****ed no matter what we do?

That isnt a terribly nice thought

Not really, no.

It's as though they only invented football as the North's revenge for centuries of real and perceived social and economic privation and injustice visited upon it by the South.

[Peter]

Not really, no.

It's as though they only invented football as the North's revenge for centuries of real and perceived social and economic privation and injustice visited upon it by the South.

At least Saka got a full 90 minutes under his belt for England in a totally pointless game. Again!

That will do him good

[redgunamo]

At least Saka got a full 90 minutes under his belt for England in a totally pointless game. Again!

That will do him good

I was about to say the same. Well played, Bukayo

[Peter]

PS - HANG ON:

"I'm not really a fan of history as comedy."

Which means you either haven't read or don't appreciate the Flashman books.

In which case burn, heretic.

{You must have read this Burma memoir, Quartered Safe Out Here? That's when you realise how he went native, as all civilised Brits do in India. But it explains why Flashman's always getting bailed out by Indian troops. cf Kipling's Grave of the Hundred Head.}

No, i have no real interest in stuff like that. I don't generally read for fun, it's for a purpose.

And I don't have an opinion on fhe English civil war. Too early for me. The US civil war, now you're talking

Obviously I love Blackadder but that is very clearly comedy set in a historic period, and doesn't pretend to be anything else.

[Sir C]

No, i have no real interest in stuff like that. I don't generally read for fun, it's for a purpose.

And I don't have an opinion on fhe English civil war. Too early for me. The US civil war, now you're talking

Obviously I love Blackadder but that is very clearly comedy set in a historic period, and doesn't pretend to be anything else.

Blackadder has a lot to answer for. That communist Ben Elton taught a whole generation that the first world war was a pointless farce and that all officers were retards. The 'Lions led by donkeys' nonsense is now considered historical fact by many of the hard of thinking.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

No, i have no real interest in stuff like that. I don't generally read for fun, it's for a purpose.

And I don't have an opinion on fhe English civil war. Too early for me. The US civil war, now you're talking

Obviously I love Blackadder but that is very clearly comedy set in a historic period, and doesn't pretend to be anything else.

But the Eng Civ War {W3K} is one of the most fascinating things in UK and Euro history. It bookends the changeover from the walls of religion period to the enlightenment. The war of religion entered in Europe with the Peace of Westphalia ending the 30 years were in 1648. While second, we kill the king in 1649 and bring his son back in 1660.

But the vital difference is that well it ends the wars of religion in the UK, it's also the worlds first political revolution. This is 140 years before the French revolution which book ends the start of the transformation from the enlightenment to Romanticism.

Without the W3K and restoration, we've never had the Glorious revolution which gave us permanent parliament and effectively started our constitutional monarchy. This 140 year lead over France and consequently the rest of Europe is what set us up for global domination.

As such, it doesn't really matter whether we like the Wrong but Wromatics or the Right but Repulsives. It's the fact that we shook hands at stumps on the fifth day in 1660 that is the vital point.

Even if you've never lived in France, you can probably guess how important the revolution is to them. The French public, including my crusty, lefty mates take the same pride in the French revolution that the the British public, especially the right, take Spitfires at the Battle of Britain.

So when I've mentioned W3K to them, they are really shocked:

"What? You cut the head of your King too?"
"Oh yes. 140 years before you did."

Ending the wars of religion and starting the European enlightenment with the worlds first political revolution is a pretty major deal.

And it shows that if we give them enough rope, the English Civil War will eventually lead to us all living in safe European homes.

re: Flashman. Are you not into imperial history, then? I don't see how anyone that's in to 19th century British imperial history called love Flashman. That's why the only books I don't like the one set in America. I'm not really bothered about their Civil War, et cetera.

But the ones about the retreat from Kabul, the Sikh wars and the mutiny are brilliant. It's brilliant historic fiction.

"Obviously I love Blackadder but that is very clearly comedy set in a historic period, and doesn't pretend to be anything else." all of which is true of Flashman.

But if you're into World War II and/or military autobiographies, then GMF's Quartered Safe Out Here is up there with Goodbye To All That. But it's even better because it's got loads of Indians in it.

[Peter]

Blackadder has a lot to answer for. That communist Ben Elton taught a whole generation that the first world war was a pointless farce and that all officers were retards. The 'Lions led by donkeys' nonsense is now considered historical fact by many of the hard of thinking.

I think the genuinely hard of thinking just found it funny and probably couldn't place it as WWI.

You are really referring to people you don't like, and they thought that anyway. Blackadder is merely indulging a prevailing view.

And anyway, it is largely true.....