We're going to be runners up again. :-(

[Peter]

But the Eng Civ War {W3K} is one of the most fascinating things in UK and Euro history. It bookends the changeover from the walls of religion period to the enlightenment. The war of religion entered in Europe with the Peace of Westphalia ending the 30 years were in 1648. While second, we kill the king in 1649 and bring his son back in 1660.

But the vital difference is that well it ends the wars of religion in the UK, it's also the worlds first political revolution. This is 140 years before the French revolution which book ends the start of the transformation from the enlightenment to Romanticism.

Without the W3K and restoration, we've never had the Glorious revolution which gave us permanent parliament and effectively started our constitutional monarchy. This 140 year lead over France and consequently the rest of Europe is what set us up for global domination.

As such, it doesn't really matter whether we like the Wrong but Wromatics or the Right but Repulsives. It's the fact that we shook hands at stumps on the fifth day in 1660 that is the vital point.

Even if you've never lived in France, you can probably guess how important the revolution is to them. The French public, including my crusty, lefty mates take the same pride in the French revolution that the the British public, especially the right, take Spitfires at the Battle of Britain.

So when I've mentioned W3K to them, they are really shocked:

"What? You cut the head of your King too?"
"Oh yes. 140 years before you did."

Ending the wars of religion and starting the European enlightenment with the worlds first political revolution is a pretty major deal.

And it shows that if we give them enough rope, the English Civil War will eventually lead to us all living in safe European homes.

re: Flashman. Are you not into imperial history, then? I don't see how anyone that's in to 19th century British imperial history called love Flashman. That's why the only books I don't like the one set in America. I'm not really bothered about their Civil War, et cetera.

But the ones about the retreat from Kabul, the Sikh wars and the mutiny are brilliant. It's brilliant historic fiction.

"Obviously I love Blackadder but that is very clearly comedy set in a historic period, and doesn't pretend to be anything else." all of which is true of Flashman.

But if you're into World War II and/or military autobiographies, then GMF's Quartered Safe Out Here is up there with Goodbye To All That. But it's even better because it's got loads of Indians in it.

There are many, many things that are simultaneously of tremendous significance and of no interest whatsoever to me.

I'm a later modernist.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

There are many, many things that are simultaneously of tremendous significance and of no interest whatsoever to me.

I'm a later modernist.

Oh, I get that. It's just I did W3K for one of my courses and later did a course on the changeover from the Enlightenment to Romanticism 1780-1830. And my A-level on the long C18th from the Glorious Rev to Waterloo/GRA/Slavery emancipation basically linked the two - the Gl Rev needed the W3K and Restoration to set the scene.

But I wasn't so interested in the W3k itself as opposed to the effects it had by starting the Enlightenment.

Have you read Quartered Safe.....? If not, you really should.

[Peter]

Oh, I get that. It's just I did W3K for one of my courses and later did a course on the changeover from the Enlightenment to Romanticism 1780-1830. And my A-level on the long C18th from the Glorious Rev to Waterloo/GRA/Slavery emancipation basically linked the two - the Gl Rev needed the W3K and Restoration to set the scene.

But I wasn't so interested in the W3k itself as opposed to the effects it had by starting the Enlightenment.

Have you read Quartered Safe.....? If not, you really should.

I probably should read that. One of my grandfathers was stationed in Burma during the war.

He came back a qualified mechanic with a love of curry

[Peter]

Oh, I get that. It's just I did W3K for one of my courses and later did a course on the changeover from the Enlightenment to Romanticism 1780-1830. And my A-level on the long C18th from the Glorious Rev to Waterloo/GRA/Slavery emancipation basically linked the two - the Gl Rev needed the W3K and Restoration to set the scene.

But I wasn't so interested in the W3k itself as opposed to the effects it had by starting the Enlightenment.

Have you read Quartered Safe.....? If not, you really should.

I have the same view of pretty much every war. I am more interested in the causes and long lasting effects than I am the war itself.

WW2 is the exception as it is, by any measure, a genuinely exciting war. Had a bit of everything, real end to end stuff.

Good for the neutrals, as it were

[PSRB]

I have the same view of pretty much every war. I am more interested in the causes and long lasting effects than I am the war itself.

WW2 is the exception as it is, by any measure, a genuinely exciting war. Had a bit of everything, real end to end stuff.

Good for the neutrals, as it were

If I was only allowed to watch one TV series, it would be The World at War.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

I have the same view of pretty much every war. I am more interested in the causes and long lasting effects than I am the war itself.

WW2 is the exception as it is, by any measure, a genuinely exciting war. Had a bit of everything, real end to end stuff.

Good for the neutrals, as it were

Oh, I was the same. Fischer Thesis for WW1 and Hitler's long term plans as the causes of WW2.

But then I saw the BBC adaptation of Pat Barker's Regeneration {Owen and Sassoon together in the Craiglockhart officers' loony bin under Dr Rivers} and when I told my mum she said it was a trilogy and gave me the 2nd and 3rd books.

After I'd read those, mum asked if I'd read Goodbye To All That, and when I said no, she gave me a copy and I was hooked. Then I bought Forgotten Victory by Gary Sheffield. {He was one half of the two-person teams in a debate on WW1 at the Brit Library for the centenary of the start in 2014. The other on his team was the OU's WW1 head, Annika Mombauer who's one of the world's leading experts on the Fischer Thesis and organised the 50th anniversary Conf in 2011.}

Sheffield was a re-revisionist {i.e. going back to how the war was seen in the '20s} before the post-WW2 revisionism of Lions led by Donkeys {Clarke's The Donkeys} and Oh, What a Lovely War. Sheffield argues against the Blackadder Haig is a donkey thesis, and has changed the academic perception in this country.

{A decade or so ago, Field Marshall Lord Brammal started a debate in The Times' letters pages saying Haig was a great general. The debate raged all week and on Friday they had two final letters, one from each side and mine was the pro-Haig one.}

So while I'm like you with all other wars {though not interested in the fighting of WW2, only the causes}, reading Owen and Sassoon as a kid and then reading the Regeneration trilogy, then Graves, then Sheffield, then others, I got into the fighting in WW1, hence my MA in it.

Btw, re: WW2 being better for neutrals. I told my MA tutor - one of the country's current top WW1 experts - about a Viz letter which said: "Why is WW1 called the Great War when WW2, with its truly global nature and use of nukes, was much better?"

But yes, if your grandfather was in Burma, you really should read Quartered Safe. And GMF is such a good writer.

[Peter]

If I was only allowed to watch one TV series, it would be The World at War.

That series is quite magnificent. Everybody should watch it.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

If I was only allowed to watch one TV series, it would be The World at War.

I was really lucky that when I spent the best part of a week in an isolation ward at Homerton hospital, I had a tv in the room. It was the time when each bed in the wards had a screen where you had to pay a fortune to watch tv or make calls.

They had The Great War {the WW1 series} on every lunchtime. One day the nurse came in to give me blood tests etc in the middle of it and I was not amused.

The food was inedible. They gave you a menu the day before to choose what you wanted and after a couple of days, I told them I couldn't eat it. So the glw would come up from South London every evening, and when I said I was going out for a fag, I'd nip to Wetherspoons and get steak and chips with her and some after dinner drugs.

Then later at night, I'd nip out for another fag break and get a few tinnies of Spesh from my old Turkish offie, and sit on the steps drinking and smoking. God alone knows why they bothered with the isolation room.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

That series is quite magnificent. Everybody should watch it.

See above. The WW1 won is genius as well.

[Peter]

Oh, I was the same. Fischer Thesis for WW1 and Hitler's long term plans as the causes of WW2.

But then I saw the BBC adaptation of Pat Barker's Regeneration {Owen and Sassoon together in the Craiglockhart officers' loony bin under Dr Rivers} and when I told my mum she said it was a trilogy and gave me the 2nd and 3rd books.

After I'd read those, mum asked if I'd read Goodbye To All That, and when I said no, she gave me a copy and I was hooked. Then I bought Forgotten Victory by Gary Sheffield. {He was one half of the two-person teams in a debate on WW1 at the Brit Library for the centenary of the start in 2014. The other on his team was the OU's WW1 head, Annika Mombauer who's one of the world's leading experts on the Fischer Thesis and organised the 50th anniversary Conf in 2011.}

Sheffield was a re-revisionist {i.e. going back to how the war was seen in the '20s} before the post-WW2 revisionism of Lions led by Donkeys {Clarke's The Donkeys} and Oh, What a Lovely War. Sheffield argues against the Blackadder Haig is a donkey thesis, and has changed the academic perception in this country.

{A decade or so ago, Field Marshall Lord Brammal started a debate in The Times' letters pages saying Haig was a great general. The debate raged all week and on Friday they had two final letters, one from each side and mine was the pro-Haig one.}

So while I'm like you with all other wars {though not interested in the fighting of WW2, only the causes}, reading Owen and Sassoon as a kid and then reading the Regeneration trilogy, then Graves, then Sheffield, then others, I got into the fighting in WW1, hence my MA in it.

Btw, re: WW2 being better for neutrals. I told my MA tutor - one of the country's current top WW1 experts - about a Viz letter which said: "Why is WW1 called the Great War when WW2, with its truly global nature and use of nukes, was much better?"

But yes, if your grandfather was in Burma, you really should read Quartered Safe. And GMF is such a good writer.

I read Goodby to all That years ago.

I was always more interested in Rupert Brooke..

I grew up with a grandfather (the other one) who despised the wars and hated the whole narrative about heroism and sacrifice. So I think the flawed and fruitless patriotism of a rather silly and tragic figure like Brooke was more appealing.

And I quite like the poetry, even though it is very Oscar Wilde-ish.

[Peter]

See above. The WW1 won is genius as well.

Which one? The really old BBC one from the 60s?

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

That series is quite magnificent. Everybody should watch it.

See above. The WW1 won is genius as well.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Which one? The really old BBC one from the 60s?

Yeah, with a Redgrave doing the narration, I think. It was purrfect.

[Peter]

Yeah, with a Redgrave doing the narration, I think. It was purrfect.

Ive been watching it on YouTube. Never seen it before

[Chief Arrowhead]

Yeah, with a Redgrave doing the narration, I think. It was purrfect.

Larry Olivier was the narrator.