MA has pissed me off re: GabbyGol.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

I take your point But the CL final did show us that there is another step forward required if we want to win the big prize, and fight off challenges in the league at home.

Madueke will get another season to prove himself and if he does, great. But we need to be ruthless in our desire to improve each year and sometimes that will mean letting people go. See Martinelli this summer. Harsh, but if there is a clear plan there then I'm ok with it. Not sure I see what that plan is at this point.

The only lessons I took from the CL final were:

1. Take better pens
2. Make sure refs give Noni nailed on pens as opposed to bottling it.
3. If they're not gonna give pens like that, teach Triphop to just push over opponents in the box as opposed to tackling them cos that's what the ****s did to Noni.
oh, and 4, try to keep at least one of BW and JT fit for the final.

Look, I get this is hypocritical of me given I called out Rio F for saying a player is only great when he's won the title. {Which means that up 'til April Silvestre was a better CH than Gabby or Willy in his book.}

But again, I've given him 12 months grace and if we win one or both the big 2, he gets another 12 months from me. He could score a hat-trick of own goals in both NLDs and the CL final, but as long as we lift both trophies, I shall not criticise him.

We live and die as a team. The team won the title. I will support every member until we aren't either champions of England or Europe. But I'm a bit old skool soppy loyal like that.

[WES]

The only lessons I took from the CL final were:

1. Take better pens
2. Make sure refs give Noni nailed on pens as opposed to bottling it.
3. If they're not gonna give pens like that, teach Triphop to just push over opponents in the box as opposed to tackling them cos that's what the ****s did to Noni.
oh, and 4, try to keep at least one of BW and JT fit for the final.

Look, I get this is hypocritical of me given I called out Rio F for saying a player is only great when he's won the title. {Which means that up 'til April Silvestre was a better CH than Gabby or Willy in his book.}

But again, I've given him 12 months grace and if we win one or both the big 2, he gets another 12 months from me. He could score a hat-trick of own goals in both NLDs and the CL final, but as long as we lift both trophies, I shall not criticise him.

We live and die as a team. The team won the title. I will support every member until we aren't either champions of England or Europe. But I'm a bit old skool soppy loyal like that.

How about:

4. If you're 1-0 up after 20 minutes against a team with some outstanding attacking players it might not be a good idea to try and spend the next 70 minutes defending. It might be a good idea to keep playing football and maybe even trying to score a 2nd

That was my main lesson from the CL final

[Peter]

How about:

4. If you're 1-0 up after 20 minutes against a team with some outstanding attacking players it might not be a good idea to try and spend the next 70 minutes defending. It might be a good idea to keep playing football and maybe even trying to score a 2nd

That was my main lesson from the CL final

Precisely. I took the lesson I had taken from the whole season. If we want to be the best side in europe we have to be capable of controlling games with the ball not without it. Of protecting leads by protecting possession. And retaining some goal threat beyond corners.

It may have been largely due to the early lead but we got completely dominated in that game. The chances of holding onto that lead against a side that good are incredibly slim if you cant win and retain the ball.

It is a big area for improvement this season. And it is going to be very difficult to achieve if we have players who constantly give the ball away and pick the wrong option.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

How about:

4. If you're 1-0 up after 20 minutes against a team with some outstanding attacking players it might not be a good idea to try and spend the next 70 minutes defending. It might be a good idea to keep playing football and maybe even trying to score a 2nd

That was my main lesson from the CL final

Disagree. We did it in Copenhagen '94. We had one player who wasn't an international and he was a 21 year old CH playing out of position at RB against the most financially doped team in history and other than one error, he was superb.

Like Razor giving a way a pen at Anfield on debut, Triphop will learn from it and go on to great things.

Bottom line is that we had a fully fit JT and BW, we'd have happily defended for 90 mins. That's what we're best at. Remember how close we came with 10 men at City? And we're even better now.

I hope we do it to them next year to prove the point. Score in the first 100 secs like the Charity Shield and then defend like *******s until the final whistle. GG would be proud {him, not me, obvs. Well, him as well as me.}

[Peter]

Disagree. We did it in Copenhagen '94. We had one player who wasn't an international and he was a 21 year old CH playing out of position at RB against the most financially doped team in history and other than one error, he was superb.

Like Razor giving a way a pen at Anfield on debut, Triphop will learn from it and go on to great things.

Bottom line is that we had a fully fit JT and BW, we'd have happily defended for 90 mins. That's what we're best at. Remember how close we came with 10 men at City? And we're even better now.

I hope we do it to them next year to prove the point. Score in the first 100 secs like the Charity Shield and then defend like *******s until the final whistle. GG would be proud {him, not me, obvs. Well, him as well as me.}

That Parma team were nowhere near PSG level. And that Arsenal team was ****e.

We have a chance to establish something here and finally win that ****ing trophy. And a few others. We are capable of so much more than we showed last season.

Title won. It's time to start things seriously.

[redgunamo]

I take your point But the CL final did show us that there is another step forward required if we want to win the big prize, and fight off challenges in the league at home.

Madueke will get another season to prove himself and if he does, great. But we need to be ruthless in our desire to improve each year and sometimes that will mean letting people go. See Martinelli this summer. Harsh, but if there is a clear plan there then I'm ok with it. Not sure I see what that plan is at this point.

Only two lessons from the Champions League final: We need some hurry up, no huddle, NFL-style routines (Chief may advise on this). Basically; You have 2 or 3 pre-rehearsed, stripped-back corner/throw in/free kick routines that require no nonsense or elaborate positioning.The moment the ball goes out, the nearest player sprints to the corner flag, a pre-designated signal is given (a vocal cue or a hand gesture), and the ball is delivered within 5 seconds of being spotted; catch the opposition before they can get organized, set their markers, or lie down "injured" to kill the momentum. You trade perfection for raw speed and chaos, forcing them to react on pure instinct.? Unforgiveable to be denied that corner just before half-time. The pre-match talk about the manager's fascination with American Football made that stand out even more.

And I suppose it goes without saying that nobody in a Mikel Arteta squad ought to be taking the very first penalty of their professional career in a shootout to win the European Cup. Shocking operational and structural breakdown. Very close to being rank incompetence.

Third Lesson Of Two; this one probably cannot be done or solved. We need to be arriving in May in comparable physical shape to our rivals; fit, rested and full strength. This cannot easily happen, of course, because of the domestic competition we face; real jeopardy in every game. Though more players will help.

But this is also the reason why the Premier League makes more money than all the other "big" leagues in Europe combined. We cannot grumble too much.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Only two lessons from the Champions League final: We need some hurry up, no huddle, NFL-style routines (Chief may advise on this). Basically; You have 2 or 3 pre-rehearsed, stripped-back corner/throw in/free kick routines that require no nonsense or elaborate positioning.The moment the ball goes out, the nearest player sprints to the corner flag, a pre-designated signal is given (a vocal cue or a hand gesture), and the ball is delivered within 5 seconds of being spotted; catch the opposition before they can get organized, set their markers, or lie down "injured" to kill the momentum. You trade perfection for raw speed and chaos, forcing them to react on pure instinct.? Unforgiveable to be denied that corner just before half-time. The pre-match talk about the manager's fascination with American Football made that stand out even more.

And I suppose it goes without saying that nobody in a Mikel Arteta squad ought to be taking the very first penalty of their professional career in a shootout to win the European Cup. Shocking operational and structural breakdown. Very close to being rank incompetence.

Third Lesson Of Two; this one probably cannot be done or solved. We need to be arriving in May in comparable physical shape to our rivals; fit, rested and full strength. This cannot easily happen, of course, because of the domestic competition we face; real jeopardy in every game. Though more players will help.

But this is also the reason why the Premier League makes more money than all the other "big" leagues in Europe combined. We cannot grumble too much.

Agree with all of that.

{Though I would add that we need our 5/6 sub bomb squad practising pens too. We know we can win shootouts when B, Ødin, Kai etc take them. We just need our subs to be as good as our opponents. Cos Daveeeed is better than whoever we're playing. Small margins etc.}

[Peter]

Agree with all of that.

{Though I would add that we need our 5/6 sub bomb squad practising pens too. We know we can win shootouts when B, Ødin, Kai etc take them. We just need our subs to be as good as our opponents. Cos Daveeeed is better than whoever we're playing. Small margins etc.}

I dont disagree with any of that. But the fact remains that PSG play better football than us. With the ball.

I am not suggesting that we try to match their style or technical level. But we certainly need to improve ours.

As we have all discussed, existing and recurring injuries last season meant thst we couldnt rotate when we wantsd to and left key players exhausted. Most obviously in the right back area. We must hope for better fortune this year, with our deeper squad.

[redgunamo]

Agree with all of that.

{Though I would add that we need our 5/6 sub bomb squad practising pens too. We know we can win shootouts when B, Ødin, Kai etc take them. We just need our subs to be as good as our opponents. Cos Daveeeed is better than whoever we're playing. Small margins etc.}

We do have a Bomb Squad (players likely to be on the pitch after extra-time) and Gabriel was #5.

[redgunamo]

I dont disagree with any of that. But the fact remains that PSG play better football than us. With the ball.

I am not suggesting that we try to match their style or technical level. But we certainly need to improve ours.

As we have all discussed, existing and recurring injuries last season meant thst we couldnt rotate when we wantsd to and left key players exhausted. Most obviously in the right back area. We must hope for better fortune this year, with our deeper squad.

PSG got lucky. If Europe's finest's best hope is the fact that Premier League winners are simply fagged out after a long season then we are doing alright.

Oddly enough, he says consulting his instruments; we may actually be the first newly-crowned English champions to actually lose a European Cup final. Although the other three won their finals during periods of domestic dominance, rather than just after winning their first title in over two decades.

The only worry is that Champions League finals don't come around all that often for us.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

PSG got lucky. If Europe's finest's best hope is the fact that Premier League winners are simply fagged out after a long season then we are doing alright.

Oddly enough, he says consulting his instruments; we may actually be the first newly-crowned English champions to actually lose a European Cup final. Although the other three won their finals during periods of domestic dominance, rather than just after winning their first title in over two decades.

The only worry is that Champions League finals don't come around all that often for us.

Agree with that.

But re: Bomb Squad. I was using it in the Saffer Rugby sense - the forwards you bring on as subs. Vik and GabbyGol scored, Easy didn't and Noni didn't take one.

Easy was unlucky - he apparently does it like that all the time and has a very good record. He hit the post. **** happens.

But Noni is an Eng intl winger. We watched him last season for Eng and us stick the ball in the top corner from outside the box. Big Gabs never does that. He can also strike a corner as well and as accurately as B and Dec. He curled onto into the top near corner.

It should not be beyond his ken to stick a dead ball past a keeper from 12 yards. If he needs to practice an hour a day after training all season, so be it.

And Zubi. Someone who can pass like that and strike a ball like he did for that volley should be able, with lots of practice if needed, to score a pen.

Daveed would have saved another. He's so good. We just need our players to score.

{Or start with Vik, Noni, Easy etc and then bring on B, Ødin and Kai after 75 mins to attack tired defences. They'd all score their pens. As would Dec and Quantum. And Daveed would save at least one.}