I wonder how much more good faith remains in the tank for Arteta

[redgunamo]

I?m not completely sure about that last point, R. These are business people that carry ruthlessness and winning within their dna. Things like sports franchises are just pi55ing contests within your circle of contemporaries. I?m sure that once in a while, each of them likes to take turns to show off who has the biggest knob.

As I say, our owners do not seem to be like that. Yes, they want to win but, as sportsmen to their bones, they appreciate that even with the best will in the world (and lots and lots of money), sometimes it just doesn't happen. Many owners do not get this; they think that because they've made billions dealing in weapons or computer chips or smuggling illegal oil and gas, they must be geniuses at everything and how hard can it be to win a poxy FA Cup.

Obviously, football will not portray it like that but any parting of the ways will be most amicable with genuine best wishes for the future.

[redgunamo]

But..... the new guys are SURELY going to shake things up a bit. I ****ing hope so.....

That's what we signed them for, fingers crossed. The captain will be fine, he will have people in front of him now.

[redgunamo]

I doubt that. We went backwards last season, and if we stay there this season there has to be a conversation in the club over the summer about whether we have we hit a ceiling, or Arteta has.

We've spent a lot of money. You can't keep doing that and going nowhere.

I'm not saying we have to win the league. But we have to perform better than we did last season, across the board. The simple fact is that this squad of players is capable of doing better. If they underperform again, someone or something has to be to blame for that. And whatever the problem is, it has to be solved.

We built the Emirates so we CAN afford to spend lots of money and go nowhere. That was the whole point of it.

The thinking must be that Arteta has actually done better than expected. Anyway, quicker. Two, three seasons ago we surprised everyone in overtaking Liverpool and we've since hung on to second by our fingernails. This is the first time Mikel has had a fully-functional, serviceable squad on paper; no gaps, no lack of funding. But he has had to earn that with decent league form, when others have won cups and got sacked.

He's had to play serious catch-up; How long and how much does it take to win the Premier League from scratch. Pep takes over a squad of champions then spends a billion quid on it, he didn't even have to buy many of his best performers. Klopp also leaves a brilliant squad behind for the next bloke. And then there's Chelsea.

Yes, we've spent and spent well, but so has everyone else and for alot longer, I'd say. Football heritage, as the man said. I'll admit I did get rather too comfortable with the fact that Liverpool always struggled to win the Premier League

[Peter]

We built the Emirates so we CAN afford to spend lots of money and go nowhere. That was the whole point of it.

The thinking must be that Arteta has actually done better than expected. Anyway, quicker. Two, three seasons ago we surprised everyone in overtaking Liverpool and we've since hung on to second by our fingernails. This is the first time Mikel has had a fully-functional, serviceable squad on paper; no gaps, no lack of funding. But he has had to earn that with decent league form, when others have won cups and got sacked.

He's had to play serious catch-up; How long and how much does it take to win the Premier League from scratch. Pep takes over a squad of champions then spends a billion quid on it, he didn't even have to buy many of his best performers. Klopp also leaves a brilliant squad behind for the next bloke. And then there's Chelsea.

Yes, we've spent and spent well, but so has everyone else and for alot longer, I'd say. Football heritage, as the man said. I'll admit I did get rather too comfortable with the fact that Liverpool always struggled to win the Premier League

I'm not insisting on titles. I just want to see this exceptional group of players produce some consistent, quality performances.

It isn't asking much.....

[redgunamo]

I'm not insisting on titles. I just want to see this exceptional group of players produce some consistent, quality performances.

It isn't asking much.....

Can't have it both ways, I'm afraid. We'll win the title and you will like it

[Peter]

Can't have it both ways, I'm afraid. We'll win the title and you will like it

If we win the title playing like this I'll eat my sombrero.

[Sir C]

We built the Emirates so we CAN afford to spend lots of money and go nowhere. That was the whole point of it.

The thinking must be that Arteta has actually done better than expected. Anyway, quicker. Two, three seasons ago we surprised everyone in overtaking Liverpool and we've since hung on to second by our fingernails. This is the first time Mikel has had a fully-functional, serviceable squad on paper; no gaps, no lack of funding. But he has had to earn that with decent league form, when others have won cups and got sacked.

He's had to play serious catch-up; How long and how much does it take to win the Premier League from scratch. Pep takes over a squad of champions then spends a billion quid on it, he didn't even have to buy many of his best performers. Klopp also leaves a brilliant squad behind for the next bloke. And then there's Chelsea.

Yes, we've spent and spent well, but so has everyone else and for alot longer, I'd say. Football heritage, as the man said. I'll admit I did get rather too comfortable with the fact that Liverpool always struggled to win the Premier League

This is an erudite and informed post r, and you are to be congratulated on the clarity of your argument and the strength of your reasoning.

However, you have missed one fundamental fact: we pay **** football that's painful to watch

[Peter]

This is an erudite and informed post r, and you are to be congratulated on the clarity of your argument and the strength of your reasoning.

However, you have missed one fundamental fact: we pay **** football that's painful to watch

Hard to argue with that.

I didn't want to bring it up but the first half hour against Leeds was ****ing awful as well, until we scored from a corner.

Two goals from open play in three games......

[redgunamo]

This is an erudite and informed post r, and you are to be congratulated on the clarity of your argument and the strength of your reasoning.

However, you have missed one fundamental fact: we pay **** football that's painful to watch

I've always been of the opinion that one either enjoys watching football or one does not. There's watching football and there's watching practically anything else.

Less than one percent of hare coursing meets, usually lasting four or five days, end in a kill, but we've been enjoying the spectacle, the occasion for several thousand years! People just love to watch the hounds work.

I blame MTV and YouTube and Tiktok and Abramovic at Chelsea; nobody has any patience anymore.

[redgunamo]

Hard to argue with that.

I didn't want to bring it up but the first half hour against Leeds was ****ing awful as well, until we scored from a corner.

Two goals from open play in three games......

Still early doors. We'll be alright.

[Peter]

I've always been of the opinion that one either enjoys watching football or one does not. There's watching football and there's watching practically anything else.

Less than one percent of hare coursing meets, usually lasting four or five days, end in a kill, but we've been enjoying the spectacle, the occasion for several thousand years! People just love to watch the hounds work.

I blame MTV and YouTube and Tiktok and Abramovic at Chelsea; nobody has any patience anymore.

And I will happily watch a five-day test match with no real prospect of a result. But that is different. You can savour situations in cricket and individual duels.

Football is primarily an 'action' sport, not a technical or tactical one. People want to see tackles, sprints, movement and, ideally, a fight. Some goals would also be nice.

What they don't want to see is a load of players moaning, finger pointing, jostling at corners, pretending to be injured and taking 5 minutes to take a throw in.

[Peter]

Still early doors. We'll be alright.

We shall see. I don't think I am going to be satisfied with alright......

[Rich]

And I will happily watch a five-day test match with no real prospect of a result. But that is different. You can savour situations in cricket and individual duels.

Football is primarily an 'action' sport, not a technical or tactical one. People want to see tackles, sprints, movement and, ideally, a fight. Some goals would also be nice.

What they don't want to see is a load of players moaning, finger pointing, jostling at corners, pretending to be injured and taking 5 minutes to take a throw in.

I quite enjoy the combative nature of it, tbh. Also... a large part of the attritional nature you're alluding to is that for a large part of last season; two of our three forward players were Merino and Martinelli. This ins't even a top half level of forward line. Saka and Odegaard were also out for large portions.

Go back 2 seasons when we had few injuries... I believe we scored the most in the league (or perhaps second most behind City).

[redgunamo]

a load of players moaning, finger pointing, jostling at corners, pretending to be injured and taking 5 minutes to take a throw in.

Our entire adult lives, experts have been telling us that in England, we must learn to do precisely those things if we were ever going to win anything again. It's what all those foreigners do, they said; it's how they beat us.

[Peter]

I quite enjoy the combative nature of it, tbh. Also... a large part of the attritional nature you're alluding to is that for a large part of last season; two of our three forward players were Merino and Martinelli. This ins't even a top half level of forward line. Saka and Odegaard were also out for large portions.

Go back 2 seasons when we had few injuries... I believe we scored the most in the league (or perhaps second most behind City).

We did. Largely thanks to an incredible run in the second half of the season, post Dubai. The first half of that season we were really poor and took 40 points from 20 games, playing stodgy, largely ineffective football. Which we reverted to last season.

So, over the last two seasons we have seen 18 games of consistent, top quality football, and 56 games of largely this kind of average, top four standard stuff.

You know that first season where we challenged for the title, we were soft, we were short on depth, we were a bit vulnerable. But we could have won that title if we'd hung on at Anfield. We played some fantastic stuff that year, and that first hour at Anfield we looked ****ing great.

I wanted that team with better players and more depth. But we didn't get it... we got this.

And now I am sitting here wondering whether Arteta wanted Gyokeres, or Eze, or Madueke. I'm wondering what his relationship with Berta is like.