I wonder how much more good faith remains in the tank for Arteta

[7sisters]

From Josh and Andrea. Any club of this size will always have a plan b.
The broad consensus this morning is that once again Arteta bottled the opportunity, which got me childishly wondering where his benchmarks are this season.
The anti has been upped considerably with this summers outlay and with it, the expectation of getting a return on all of this new talent.
Yanks, in my experience, don?t take prisoners, commercially speaking. If we?re not seriously challenging by Xmas, while dropping points to City, Newcastle, Chelsea etc along the way, he may not see January.
It really is now all on Arteta to get the best out of these players, by unlocking their creativity. Southgate was blessed with a squad full of flair and look what happened there each time silverware came into view.
Personally, I don?t think he?s got it, which is not based in yesterdays result, but more the direction of play over last season.

[Peter]

From Josh and Andrea. Any club of this size will always have a plan b.
The broad consensus this morning is that once again Arteta bottled the opportunity, which got me childishly wondering where his benchmarks are this season.
The anti has been upped considerably with this summers outlay and with it, the expectation of getting a return on all of this new talent.
Yanks, in my experience, don?t take prisoners, commercially speaking. If we?re not seriously challenging by Xmas, while dropping points to City, Newcastle, Chelsea etc along the way, he may not see January.
It really is now all on Arteta to get the best out of these players, by unlocking their creativity. Southgate was blessed with a squad full of flair and look what happened there each time silverware came into view.
Personally, I don?t think he?s got it, which is not based in yesterdays result, but more the direction of play over last season.

Arteta isn't going anywhere this season.

However.... if we do have the same season as last time, and end up shy of 80 points with no realistic challenge and the same dreary football, I think there will have to be a conversation over the summer.

It is early days, and the new signings aren't bedded in yet. We are relying on the likes of Gyokeres, Eze and Madueke to start challenging this sideways, backwards, lifeless ****e.

My fear is that this is simply Arteta's instinct, or a consequence of the way his coaching prepares players. The mindset is wrong, even if it isn't the one intends to impose.

What is genuinely astonishing is just how ****ing awful our counter attacking is. You see teams like Bournemouth and Villa tear up the pitch and pull teams apart with players vastly inferior to ours. I don't get it.

Martinelli carried the ball 70 yards yesterday, ignored every pass in a 3 against 3 and kept going until he ran out of pitch, like Forrest Gump......

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

From Josh and Andrea. Any club of this size will always have a plan b.
The broad consensus this morning is that once again Arteta bottled the opportunity, which got me childishly wondering where his benchmarks are this season.
The anti has been upped considerably with this summers outlay and with it, the expectation of getting a return on all of this new talent.
Yanks, in my experience, don?t take prisoners, commercially speaking. If we?re not seriously challenging by Xmas, while dropping points to City, Newcastle, Chelsea etc along the way, he may not see January.
It really is now all on Arteta to get the best out of these players, by unlocking their creativity. Southgate was blessed with a squad full of flair and look what happened there each time silverware came into view.
Personally, I don?t think he?s got it, which is not based in yesterdays result, but more the direction of play over last season.

Re: If MA's got it. We were away at the champions missing B, Kai, Odin from the start {and Benny who can really create an overload with B and Odin in a way that JT's yet to} and their only real chance was a brilliant FK that the 'keeper made easier with his positioning.

Re: Yanks taking prisoners. Not just commercially. Reading some primary sources after D-Day, when the Brits took some PoWs one Kraut saw a Brits Desert Rats badge, pointed at it and asked "Montgomery?" The Brit nodded and the Kraut said "Me Rommel" and saluted him.

When some Krauts surrendered to some Yanks, the Septics shot them cos that's what they do over there.

Bit like Nov 11, 1918. 10:57 am, in one trench facing the Brits, the German machine gunner fired off the whole chain of bullets at maximum elevation so it went deliberately over everyone's heads, then climbed out on top of his trench, removed his pointy hat, and bowed to our boys before climbing back down.

11:04 am, the final death of WW1. A Kraut officer goes to a Yank officer and tells him where their officers' mess is and swears on his oath that there are no booby traps so they can just walk in and use it. A Yank sergeant then shoots him dead.

{And speaking of such things, the last Convicts to leave Gallipoli left their officer's mess with a fully laid table with food on the table and tea in the mugs. Other than their cricketers, Johnny Convict is infinitely more civilised than Johnny Septic.}

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Arteta isn't going anywhere this season.

However.... if we do have the same season as last time, and end up shy of 80 points with no realistic challenge and the same dreary football, I think there will have to be a conversation over the summer.

It is early days, and the new signings aren't bedded in yet. We are relying on the likes of Gyokeres, Eze and Madueke to start challenging this sideways, backwards, lifeless ****e.

My fear is that this is simply Arteta's instinct, or a consequence of the way his coaching prepares players. The mindset is wrong, even if it isn't the one intends to impose.

What is genuinely astonishing is just how ****ing awful our counter attacking is. You see teams like Bournemouth and Villa tear up the pitch and pull teams apart with players vastly inferior to ours. I don't get it.

Martinelli carried the ball 70 yards yesterday, ignored every pass in a 3 against 3 and kept going until he ran out of pitch, like Forrest Gump......

I'm as unhappy as you, but if Daveed hadn't given that much room, and we'd got away with a 0-0 with Willy injured and B, Kai, Benny and Odin not playing/starting, we'd think we were in with a shout.

We really do need Kai back, though. As I said elsewhere, Vik did no worse than Salah but with us {and them} unable to get behind the back 4, a creative no.10 dropping into MF and linking play would have been more helpful.

[Peter]

I'm as unhappy as you, but if Daveed hadn't given that much room, and we'd got away with a 0-0 with Willy injured and B, Kai, Benny and Odin not playing/starting, we'd think we were in with a shout.

We really do need Kai back, though. As I said elsewhere, Vik did no worse than Salah but with us {and them} unable to get behind the back 4, a creative no.10 dropping into MF and linking play would have been more helpful.

When the guy strikes the ball, Raya has moved to the centre of the goal and is going that way. What I am saying is that I am not sure he stops it either way. **** knows how you get beaten from there but I am not convinced it is a huge positioning error.

I think my issue is that we are all still making excuses. X was mising, Y went off injured, so and so had a nightmare.

**** all that.

We were well set at half time and playing well. It was an opportunity to win at Anfield. Instead we backed off and surrendered territory. We always do it. Teams know we are going to do it. We didn't need to do it.

All we really did was render one result (an away win) impossible. What the hell are we scared of? Liverpool looked pretty crap.

Why was Arteta not prowling the touchline screaming at the line to push up. Why was Declan ****ing Rice having to scream at the back four to come out quicker and wave his arms around like a maniac?

We get locked in, conditioned to take no risk, to just dig in and wait.

I could live with that if our counter attacking wasn't so mind meltingly ****ing useless.

Not ****ing happy. Hoping the new guys are going to start causing some friction in training. Hoping Gyokeres starts asking what the ****ing point is of him making runs if we are just going to recycle possession all the time.

Eze is class and is going to make a difference. But Arteta needs to see what is happening here. He has a fantastic squad and they have been underperforming for more than a year. That is on him......

[redgunamo]

When the guy strikes the ball, Raya has moved to the centre of the goal and is going that way. What I am saying is that I am not sure he stops it either way. **** knows how you get beaten from there but I am not convinced it is a huge positioning error.

I think my issue is that we are all still making excuses. X was mising, Y went off injured, so and so had a nightmare.

**** all that.

We were well set at half time and playing well. It was an opportunity to win at Anfield. Instead we backed off and surrendered territory. We always do it. Teams know we are going to do it. We didn't need to do it.

All we really did was render one result (an away win) impossible. What the hell are we scared of? Liverpool looked pretty crap.

Why was Arteta not prowling the touchline screaming at the line to push up. Why was Declan ****ing Rice having to scream at the back four to come out quicker and wave his arms around like a maniac?

We get locked in, conditioned to take no risk, to just dig in and wait.

I could live with that if our counter attacking wasn't so mind meltingly ****ing useless.

Not ****ing happy. Hoping the new guys are going to start causing some friction in training. Hoping Gyokeres starts asking what the ****ing point is of him making runs if we are just going to recycle possession all the time.

Eze is class and is going to make a difference. But Arteta needs to see what is happening here. He has a fantastic squad and they have been underperforming for more than a year. That is on him......

On the day, I suppose your intentions are signalled by your selections. If you think you're the better side, you want to win the game in the first hour and THEN chill and just keep it tight.

Not sure what Arteta can do about that; he is what he is. Nonetheless, you make good points. Decent moment for an international break anyway

[Rich]

On the day, I suppose your intentions are signalled by your selections. If you think you're the better side, you want to win the game in the first hour and THEN chill and just keep it tight.

Not sure what Arteta can do about that; he is what he is. Nonetheless, you make good points. Decent moment for an international break anyway

Cesc Fabregas in?

[redgunamo]

Cesc Fabregas in?

I watched his game the other night. He's made a promising start to his managerial career, hasn't he. But then, his sort is fashionable just now.

[redgunamo]

From Josh and Andrea. Any club of this size will always have a plan b.
The broad consensus this morning is that once again Arteta bottled the opportunity, which got me childishly wondering where his benchmarks are this season.
The anti has been upped considerably with this summers outlay and with it, the expectation of getting a return on all of this new talent.
Yanks, in my experience, don?t take prisoners, commercially speaking. If we?re not seriously challenging by Xmas, while dropping points to City, Newcastle, Chelsea etc along the way, he may not see January.
It really is now all on Arteta to get the best out of these players, by unlocking their creativity. Southgate was blessed with a squad full of flair and look what happened there each time silverware came into view.
Personally, I don?t think he?s got it, which is not based in yesterdays result, but more the direction of play over last season.

While he's finishing in the top four, he'll be safe. If anything, Mikel himself will pull the trigger when he's had enough.

One caveat: When he's made us so much money that the club can afford to take a risk on a new boss, they might reluctantly let him go and seek fresh challenges.

Overall, I don't think the owners care about trophies; the Kroenke's, at heart, are sportsmen. They like to win but more importantly, they like to compete, to do well.

[7sisters]

While he's finishing in the top four, he'll be safe. If anything, Mikel himself will pull the trigger when he's had enough.

One caveat: When he's made us so much money that the club can afford to take a risk on a new boss, they might reluctantly let him go and seek fresh challenges.

Overall, I don't think the owners care about trophies; the Kroenke's, at heart, are sportsmen. They like to win but more importantly, they like to compete, to do well.

I?m not completely sure about that last point, R. These are business people that carry ruthlessness and winning within their dna. Things like sports franchises are just pi55ing contests within your circle of contemporaries. I?m sure that once in a while, each of them likes to take turns to show off who has the biggest knob.

[Peter]

I?m not completely sure about that last point, R. These are business people that carry ruthlessness and winning within their dna. Things like sports franchises are just pi55ing contests within your circle of contemporaries. I?m sure that once in a while, each of them likes to take turns to show off who has the biggest knob.

Well, a strange thing started happening with our owners a few years back. After years of mediocrity their sports franchises started winning stuff. In fact, I think we are their only major asset that hasn't won a major prize recently. And the investment seems to have gone up.

Nobody knows why, but it does appear that they got a bit bored of just making money and decided it might be fun to start winning stuff.....

[Rich]

Well, a strange thing started happening with our owners a few years back. After years of mediocrity their sports franchises started winning stuff. In fact, I think we are their only major asset that hasn't won a major prize recently. And the investment seems to have gone up.

Nobody knows why, but it does appear that they got a bit bored of just making money and decided it might be fun to start winning stuff.....

Would be nice. But Arteta has at least 3 seasons of good grace, I'd argue.

[Peter]

Would be nice. But Arteta has at least 3 seasons of good grace, I'd argue.

I doubt that. We went backwards last season, and if we stay there this season there has to be a conversation in the club over the summer about whether we have we hit a ceiling, or Arteta has.

We've spent a lot of money. You can't keep doing that and going nowhere.

I'm not saying we have to win the league. But we have to perform better than we did last season, across the board. The simple fact is that this squad of players is capable of doing better. If they underperform again, someone or something has to be to blame for that. And whatever the problem is, it has to be solved.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

I doubt that. We went backwards last season, and if we stay there this season there has to be a conversation in the club over the summer about whether we have we hit a ceiling, or Arteta has.

We've spent a lot of money. You can't keep doing that and going nowhere.

I'm not saying we have to win the league. But we have to perform better than we did last season, across the board. The simple fact is that this squad of players is capable of doing better. If they underperform again, someone or something has to be to blame for that. And whatever the problem is, it has to be solved.

Both our outfield signings got crocked, one in his first training session, the other in the intl break. Our skipper got crocked, our star boy got crocked and both our strikers got crocked yet we still made the CL semis, losing the the eventual winners who we'd beaten in the group stages.

I'm as peeved about the Anfield result as you are, and I so wish we had Kai to share the role while we learn how to play to Vik's strengths.

But we beat the CL holders home and away in the quarters with Yakob at CH and MnM up top. That is some form of progress.

[Peter]

Both our outfield signings got crocked, one in his first training session, the other in the intl break. Our skipper got crocked, our star boy got crocked and both our strikers got crocked yet we still made the CL semis, losing the the eventual winners who we'd beaten in the group stages.

I'm as peeved about the Anfield result as you are, and I so wish we had Kai to share the role while we learn how to play to Vik's strengths.

But we beat the CL holders home and away in the quarters with Yakob at CH and MnM up top. That is some form of progress.

An awful lot of excuses in there. I am afraid it doesn't really cover up the fact that there were plenty of periods in the season where we were fielding extremely strong sides but still producing below par performances. Odegaard missed about 10 games and then spent the last two thirds of the season stinking the place out.

At times our football was horrible last season. And I have seen the same again in our first two away games. I am not peeved at the result. I am angry about both the performances. And I am worried we are going to keep seeing it.

But..... the new guys are SURELY going to shake things up a bit. I ****ing hope so.....