As soon as I looked at that i saw a huge gap

[Peter]

"Managing the game" simply has to include scoring goals, especially in the first half. Otherwise what game are you managing.

Managing the game has to mean controlling it, not destroying it.

And if you control games, you can score goals.

Liverpool's back four had a much harder game against Bournemouth. We hardly laid a glove on them save for a few Madueke runs

[WES]

We controlled parts of the first half. We've done absolutely nothing in the second half. Sat deeper and deeper, surrendered control against a side you say yourself were cautious.

This what we do, and it just doesn't work.

But you're drawing the conclusion that we are at least as good as the team we have just lost to......

You expected us to control the entire game at Anfield? You think we?re so much better than the defending champions that if we aren?t controlling the game it?s down to us and nothing to do with them being rather good?

You expect to much, Peter. Even game that was going to be a draw unless someone did something spectacular. They did, we didn?t, but they are no better than us. Going to be a fun season.

[Peter]

You expected us to control the entire game at Anfield? You think we?re so much better than the defending champions that if we aren?t controlling the game it?s down to us and nothing to do with them being rather good?

You expect to much, Peter. Even game that was going to be a draw unless someone did something spectacular. They did, we didn?t, but they are no better than us. Going to be a fun season.

Not what I said at all. In fact it was you who said we are at least as good as the defending champions.

My point is we surrendered control in the second half. That goal was coming. We dropped deeper and deeper but we never reacted or tried to change the game. We were hoping to nick the draw.

Liverpool are not playing well. They were there to be beaten today instead we backed off abd played with fear in the second half.

Got what we deserved. Abd until we start turning up wanting to play in these games we are not going to win a thing.

And as I have said elsewhere had we tried and failed, I could live with it. We never tried. We never do.

Nothing has changed. Expect the same season again

[Peter]

You expected us to control the entire game at Anfield? You think we?re so much better than the defending champions that if we aren?t controlling the game it?s down to us and nothing to do with them being rather good?

You expect to much, Peter. Even game that was going to be a draw unless someone did something spectacular. They did, we didn?t, but they are no better than us. Going to be a fun season.

And, another ****ijg injury

[WES]

Not what I said at all. In fact it was you who said we are at least as good as the defending champions.

My point is we surrendered control in the second half. That goal was coming. We dropped deeper and deeper but we never reacted or tried to change the game. We were hoping to nick the draw.

Liverpool are not playing well. They were there to be beaten today instead we backed off abd played with fear in the second half.

Got what we deserved. Abd until we start turning up wanting to play in these games we are not going to win a thing.

And as I have said elsewhere had we tried and failed, I could live with it. We never tried. We never do.

Nothing has changed. Expect the same season again

So you don?t think there?s a possibility that we dropped deeper and conceded more possession because they were playing better? They passed better, moved better, pressed better? It must have been because we surrendered?

I appreciate your optimism, Peter

[Peter]

So you don?t think there?s a possibility that we dropped deeper and conceded more possession because they were playing better? They passed better, moved better, pressed better? It must have been because we surrendered?

I appreciate your optimism, Peter

Let's say you are right. How does that sit with your claim that this game shows we are at least as good as them?

Given that they passed better, moved better, pressed better.....?

Let's face it, we're both probably wrong. Unfortunately our coach is as well

[redgunamo]

Let's say you are right. How does that sit with your claim that this game shows we are at least as good as them?

Given that they passed better, moved better, pressed better.....?

Let's face it, we're both probably wrong. Unfortunately our coach is as well

No; from a coach's point of view, losing 1-nil is far better than losing 5-4.

[Peter]

No; from a coach's point of view, losing 1-nil is far better than losing 5-4.

George Graham was only negative when he knew he had a **** team. When we were good, and he knew it. We attacked games.

We are not ****. Far from it. But we need to be more adventurous if we are going to move beyond finishing in the top four.

Two positives today. Madeueke looks better than Sterling

And the young Spanish defender did well.

But we lost Saliba, and we lost the game.

Not a good day for us at all. On the back of that wretched performance against United, I'm convinced I don't want to bother witg the Newcastle game. I'm going to go out on the piss and ignore it.

[redgunamo]

George Graham was only negative when he knew he had a **** team. When we were good, and he knew it. We attacked games.

We are not ****. Far from it. But we need to be more adventurous if we are going to move beyond finishing in the top four.

Two positives today. Madeueke looks better than Sterling

And the young Spanish defender did well.

But we lost Saliba, and we lost the game.

Not a good day for us at all. On the back of that wretched performance against United, I'm convinced I don't want to bother witg the Newcastle game. I'm going to go out on the piss and ignore it.

All fair points. I like Noni, despite everything. And apparently we can never have too many centre halves after all. Or even maybe enough.

But why the obsession with Dowman? Surely Leo in that situation, a proven "Joker", after all.

[Rich]

At that post.

It's a great hit but....

Sorry, we deserve this. We've offered nothing at all since half time.

The only thing I will say is that any trust Arteta had in Martinelli has now gone. An utterly woeful performance

[redgunamo]

The only thing I will say is that any trust Arteta had in Martinelli has now gone. An utterly woeful performance

Dunno about that. He's a top four or five most regular starter/selection under Mikel, I'd say. Clearly he likes what he does.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

All fair points. I like Noni, despite everything. And apparently we can never have too many centre halves after all. Or even maybe enough.

But why the obsession with Dowman? Surely Leo in that situation, a proven "Joker", after all.

Re: Dowman. We weren't creating enough chances. At least Max may have won a pelanty dribbling into the box.

We're still learning how to play with Vik and neither side were really able to get beyond the back 4. A fit Kai would have been a better option to start with up top. Vik had a nice touch or two in the box but Kai dropping deep pulling CHs out of position may have been much more useful in that game.

Re: CHs. Nowadays it's a squad game where we have about 8 subs {or however many it is on the bench.} But back in the day, we had TA, Bould, Linnighan and O'Leary/Keown.

The thing I still hate was 1991 when TA was banged up and we were away at the Chavs, unbeaten. We got an injury to one of our CHs, and with only two subs - a MFer and a striker - we had to play David Hillier at CH.

In today's game, we'd have had at least one more CH on the pitch. We wouldn't have lost and would have been Invincibles.

As an aside, Noni looked good. The fans who gave him grief when he signed should go and support the Sperz. And Eze's gonna be amazing for us.

Though we need to find a left footed corner taker. That cost us. We got quite a few corners on the right - Noni did well to win us several. But we had no inswingers and didn't threaten at all from that side. Can Noni not take them? Or Cala - who also had a good game. I thought those two were our best players in the first half.

But why did Daveeed give their FK taker so much of the goal to aim for? It was central FFS. Stay in the middle of the goal. From that distance you should be able to get your hand to the post once the ball's over the wall.

I don't like this jumping while the FK's being taken. It's what cost Hull when Santo scored. I don't really want to criticise Daveed. I think he's one of the best 'keepers we've ever had. Some of his saves have been peak Spunky. And I know that perfectly struck FKs can beat anyone, as Dec showed against Real. {Or Titi vs Buffon.} But why not stay in the middle of the goal and move once the ball's over the wall?

[Peter]

Re: Dowman. We weren't creating enough chances. At least Max may have won a pelanty dribbling into the box.

We're still learning how to play with Vik and neither side were really able to get beyond the back 4. A fit Kai would have been a better option to start with up top. Vik had a nice touch or two in the box but Kai dropping deep pulling CHs out of position may have been much more useful in that game.

Re: CHs. Nowadays it's a squad game where we have about 8 subs {or however many it is on the bench.} But back in the day, we had TA, Bould, Linnighan and O'Leary/Keown.

The thing I still hate was 1991 when TA was banged up and we were away at the Chavs, unbeaten. We got an injury to one of our CHs, and with only two subs - a MFer and a striker - we had to play David Hillier at CH.

In today's game, we'd have had at least one more CH on the pitch. We wouldn't have lost and would have been Invincibles.

As an aside, Noni looked good. The fans who gave him grief when he signed should go and support the Sperz. And Eze's gonna be amazing for us.

Though we need to find a left footed corner taker. That cost us. We got quite a few corners on the right - Noni did well to win us several. But we had no inswingers and didn't threaten at all from that side. Can Noni not take them? Or Cala - who also had a good game. I thought those two were our best players in the first half.

But why did Daveeed give their FK taker so much of the goal to aim for? It was central FFS. Stay in the middle of the goal. From that distance you should be able to get your hand to the post once the ball's over the wall.

I don't like this jumping while the FK's being taken. It's what cost Hull when Santo scored. I don't really want to criticise Daveed. I think he's one of the best 'keepers we've ever had. Some of his saves have been peak Spunky. And I know that perfectly struck FKs can beat anyone, as Dec showed against Real. {Or Titi vs Buffon.} But why not stay in the middle of the goal and move once the ball's over the wall?

As I said in the title, I saw that gap straight away. He was offering it. He starts to move across before it is even hit but he is too late. Bad move. Don't offer the gap from that distance. That said, it is an exceptional hit.

Madueke was our sole offensive outlet. Aside from him we created literally nothing all game. He looked good. As did the young centre back, although our approach to the game gave the centre backs a huge amount of protection. Calafiori looked really good and we made sure Salah didnt get space to run at him. He'll get injured during the international break but it was nice to see him put in a good performance just to remind us what we will be missing.......

Eze is going to make a difference as well. Martinelli was just hopeless.

If I an Nwaneri, I am keeping an eye on my phone today. Not just overlooked for the role he is apparently covering, but a ****ing 15 year old kid gets on ahead of him. If the idea was that Dowman might win a penalty, we are perhaps overlooking where and who we were playing......

[Peter]

Dunno about that. He's a top four or five most regular starter/selection under Mikel, I'd say. Clearly he likes what he does.

As others have said, his defensive work is a big plus. But his confidence is on the floor and he has been **** for so long that it is becoming difficult to remember the good player he used to be.

Something needs to change with him. He was useless yesterday, up against a guy who should never be playing at right back. On the other flank, Madueke was giving his full back hell with no support.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

As I said in the title, I saw that gap straight away. He was offering it. He starts to move across before it is even hit but he is too late. Bad move. Don't offer the gap from that distance. That said, it is an exceptional hit.

Madueke was our sole offensive outlet. Aside from him we created literally nothing all game. He looked good. As did the young centre back, although our approach to the game gave the centre backs a huge amount of protection. Calafiori looked really good and we made sure Salah didnt get space to run at him. He'll get injured during the international break but it was nice to see him put in a good performance just to remind us what we will be missing.......

Eze is going to make a difference as well. Martinelli was just hopeless.

If I an Nwaneri, I am keeping an eye on my phone today. Not just overlooked for the role he is apparently covering, but a ****ing 15 year old kid gets on ahead of him. If the idea was that Dowman might win a penalty, we are perhaps overlooking where and who we were playing......

Vik was mostly anonymous. But both sides stopped their opponents getting beyond the back 4. He was no worse than Salah or Etitike.

That game would have been perfect for Kai. He could drop deep and try to play in a winger or MnM coming in late.

Or Eze in the no.10 role instead of MnM, with Vik dragging the defenders out of shape.