Time for some home truths

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

You're absolutely right. Raya had a poor start, Rice took a bit of time to adjust and Havertz in midfield simply didnt work.

But it was also the birth of game management and fhe start of the goals drying up. We looked for control, particularly away from home. We toughened up. Which was needed as we had been too easy to get at the previous season.

Post Dubai the shape changed, but so did the attitude. Unfortunately, it reverted back the following season.

It is always a question of balance. Abd I al afraid I jist do not like our insistence on trying to kill games without the ball when we are more than capable of killing it with the ball.

I defer to your superior knowledge. But for me, Wigwam and Dec in MF with Kai up top worked better than Dec and Kai in MF with Jeeez up top.

In an ideal world, we score 3 and shut up shop. But it's not an ideal world. These other teams cheat by playing well despite not having a cannon on their tits. As was shown by them all taking points of the Mancs, Scousers et al. If Villa had had the decency to lose, Bournemouth would be in the CL. Sperz were top 8 in the CL league phase despite almost being relegated. Villa and the Eagles won Euro comps.

We're not playing in France or Germany where only one team can win most of the time. Or Spain where it's only 2. In the last 20 years, AM have won it twice. The financial cheats have won all the others.

Btw, Barca need a good stuffing from us to make up for RvP's red card.

[Peter]

I defer to your superior knowledge. But for me, Wigwam and Dec in MF with Kai up top worked better than Dec and Kai in MF with Jeeez up top.

In an ideal world, we score 3 and shut up shop. But it's not an ideal world. These other teams cheat by playing well despite not having a cannon on their tits. As was shown by them all taking points of the Mancs, Scousers et al. If Villa had had the decency to lose, Bournemouth would be in the CL. Sperz were top 8 in the CL league phase despite almost being relegated. Villa and the Eagles won Euro comps.

We're not playing in France or Germany where only one team can win most of the time. Or Spain where it's only 2. In the last 20 years, AM have won it twice. The financial cheats have won all the others.

Btw, Barca need a good stuffing from us to make up for RvP's red card.

Well, of course it worked better. If for no other reason than that Partey is a far better midfielder than Havertz and Havertz a better goalscorer than Jesus.

But it makes little difference if you take an ice age to get the ball forward.

I'm not saying I expect us to win the league every season. I am just saying we should be aiming to, and doing everything we can to make it happen.

And we have to win a bloody champions league, just to shut everyone up!

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Well, of course it worked better. If for no other reason than that Partey is a far better midfielder than Havertz and Havertz a better goalscorer than Jesus.

But it makes little difference if you take an ice age to get the ball forward.

I'm not saying I expect us to win the league every season. I am just saying we should be aiming to, and doing everything we can to make it happen.

And we have to win a bloody champions league, just to shut everyone up!

Are we considering that it took longer to move the ball forward when we had Zubi at DM? With Dec there, it's more like when we had Wigwam cos both can burst through the lines. MLS looks class there, between Dec and ?din. He's 19 and played in the CL final against the richest team on the planet and didn't look out of place.

I think that Dec and MLS, with Kai up top, could really be an upgrade.

We need a LW, an extra defender now MLS is gonna be MF only. And a wild card like Easy was last summer. We also have the young doctor, who's not only looked great at RW but in the final game of the season, playing at inside right, looked as good as anyone on the pitch. He'll be like a new signing, as Kai was.

We have MnM back, so have Dec, Zubi, MLS and MnM for 2 MF places. With ?din, Easy, Kai and the doctor as no.10s. The squad's pretty good.

[WES]

Are we considering that it took longer to move the ball forward when we had Zubi at DM? With Dec there, it's more like when we had Wigwam cos both can burst through the lines. MLS looks class there, between Dec and ?din. He's 19 and played in the CL final against the richest team on the planet and didn't look out of place.

I think that Dec and MLS, with Kai up top, could really be an upgrade.

We need a LW, an extra defender now MLS is gonna be MF only. And a wild card like Easy was last summer. We also have the young doctor, who's not only looked great at RW but in the final game of the season, playing at inside right, looked as good as anyone on the pitch. He'll be like a new signing, as Kai was.

We have MnM back, so have Dec, Zubi, MLS and MnM for 2 MF places. With ?din, Easy, Kai and the doctor as no.10s. The squad's pretty good.

Don't think anyone's arguing the squad isn't pretty good, GG. Peter, and others, are pointing out that now that we've won it this is the time to invest in the players that will allow us to win it again, and win it again with a little more style.

Personally, I think we're only two players away from being able to do the style bit. Definitely a left sided attacking player and a striker or even a new midfielder if he has lost faith in Ode.

I do wonder as well if we wouldn't improve with a new DM that would allow Rice to move further forward. There was a period where he looked world class there. But that would require selling Zubi I think.

He could go all radical and sell Zubi and Ode and buy Anderson from NF and an attacking player. The problem he faces is that the type of player he needs to push us up to the next level is rarely available, how many really good attacking players/strikers are there that can be bought?

Will be a very interesting summer, I think

[Peter]

Don't think anyone's arguing the squad isn't pretty good, GG. Peter, and others, are pointing out that now that we've won it this is the time to invest in the players that will allow us to win it again, and win it again with a little more style.

Personally, I think we're only two players away from being able to do the style bit. Definitely a left sided attacking player and a striker or even a new midfielder if he has lost faith in Ode.

I do wonder as well if we wouldn't improve with a new DM that would allow Rice to move further forward. There was a period where he looked world class there. But that would require selling Zubi I think.

He could go all radical and sell Zubi and Ode and buy Anderson from NF and an attacking player. The problem he faces is that the type of player he needs to push us up to the next level is rarely available, how many really good attacking players/strikers are there that can be bought?

Will be a very interesting summer, I think

I think if we want to change our style we have to be braver with the ball in the central areas. Rice looks more comfortable than anyone else in the deep pivot so I would leave him there. MLS has performed well ahead of him. That is the starting point.

If we really want to do this we arguably need to raise the technical level of our midfield. We thought Zubimendi was going to give us this. So far, he hasn't.

But the key word is bravery. If we want to keep the ball and pose a threat then he has to encourage more movement off the ball and we have to have players who are willing to play one touch or to carry.

We know Arteta has a brave side. I'm hoping the title has lifted a weight from his shoulders and we get back to what an Aeteta side should really look like. Bravery, balance and defensive organisation.

I'm keen to see Berta's work this summer. Will be very interesting.

[redgunamo]

Well, of course it worked better. If for no other reason than that Partey is a far better midfielder than Havertz and Havertz a better goalscorer than Jesus.

But it makes little difference if you take an ice age to get the ball forward.

I'm not saying I expect us to win the league every season. I am just saying we should be aiming to, and doing everything we can to make it happen.

And we have to win a bloody champions league, just to shut everyone up!

It made all the difference in the world! You cannot have forgotten we won the Premier League just a fortnight ago?

Fortunately, one of the things Arteta is certainly doing is refusing to take tactical advices from people like us. And the board is following suit by not caring a fig what people say about the Champions League; if we ever win it, it'll be for us, the Arsenal, and not because of bitter rivals' banter.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Don't think anyone's arguing the squad isn't pretty good, GG. Peter, and others, are pointing out that now that we've won it this is the time to invest in the players that will allow us to win it again, and win it again with a little more style.

Personally, I think we're only two players away from being able to do the style bit. Definitely a left sided attacking player and a striker or even a new midfielder if he has lost faith in Ode.

I do wonder as well if we wouldn't improve with a new DM that would allow Rice to move further forward. There was a period where he looked world class there. But that would require selling Zubi I think.

He could go all radical and sell Zubi and Ode and buy Anderson from NF and an attacking player. The problem he faces is that the type of player he needs to push us up to the next level is rarely available, how many really good attacking players/strikers are there that can be bought?

Will be a very interesting summer, I think

I think play Dec as DM. He's perfect there. We looked much better when we switched to him and MLS. He can break through the lines like Wigwam did and surge forward. He's almost as good as Gabby at the last ditch tackles. He's a bit like Paddy V.

I'd just love to see ?din back to his best. There were one or two games between injuries where we saw him play at the top of his game and when he does, he's world class.

[redgunamo]

I think if we want to change our style we have to be braver with the ball in the central areas. Rice looks more comfortable than anyone else in the deep pivot so I would leave him there. MLS has performed well ahead of him. That is the starting point.

If we really want to do this we arguably need to raise the technical level of our midfield. We thought Zubimendi was going to give us this. So far, he hasn't.

But the key word is bravery. If we want to keep the ball and pose a threat then he has to encourage more movement off the ball and we have to have players who are willing to play one touch or to carry.

We know Arteta has a brave side. I'm hoping the title has lifted a weight from his shoulders and we get back to what an Aeteta side should really look like. Bravery, balance and defensive organisation.

I'm keen to see Berta's work this summer. Will be very interesting.

I suspect Mikel has a different idea on what bravery is. He's just won the Premier League by keeping clean sheets and defending about a dozen one-goal leads. It doesn't get braver than that, no other team could do it.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

I think if we want to change our style we have to be braver with the ball in the central areas. Rice looks more comfortable than anyone else in the deep pivot so I would leave him there. MLS has performed well ahead of him. That is the starting point.

If we really want to do this we arguably need to raise the technical level of our midfield. We thought Zubimendi was going to give us this. So far, he hasn't.

But the key word is bravery. If we want to keep the ball and pose a threat then he has to encourage more movement off the ball and we have to have players who are willing to play one touch or to carry.

We know Arteta has a brave side. I'm hoping the title has lifted a weight from his shoulders and we get back to what an Aeteta side should really look like. Bravery, balance and defensive organisation.

I'm keen to see Berta's work this summer. Will be very interesting.

I agree that Dec at DM and MLS ahead of him is the starting point. MLS really has something about him. Hardly played all season and then him coming in so Dec could drop to DM probably won us the title. And almost the CL. He didn't look out of place.

If we didn't have MLS and had bought a 20 year old for ?80m who played in his first month like MLS has for the last month or two, we'd be well chuffed.

At the start of the season, Zubi was being talked about as the signing of the summer. He seemed perfect. We can rotate him and Dec and also play both in tough away games.

[WES]

I agree that Dec at DM and MLS ahead of him is the starting point. MLS really has something about him. Hardly played all season and then him coming in so Dec could drop to DM probably won us the title. And almost the CL. He didn't look out of place.

If we didn't have MLS and had bought a 20 year old for ?80m who played in his first month like MLS has for the last month or two, we'd be well chuffed.

At the start of the season, Zubi was being talked about as the signing of the summer. He seemed perfect. We can rotate him and Dec and also play both in tough away games.

Well, Rice played DM and MLS was ahead of him last Saturday night and they spent most of the match without the ball.

Will Arteta really change his tactics that much with the same players? I doubt it.

I honestly think that something radical like selling Ode or changing Rice' position in midfield might be needed.

[Peter]

It made all the difference in the world! You cannot have forgotten we won the Premier League just a fortnight ago?

Fortunately, one of the things Arteta is certainly doing is refusing to take tactical advices from people like us. And the board is following suit by not caring a fig what people say about the Champions League; if we ever win it, it'll be for us, the Arsenal, and not because of bitter rivals' banter.

This whole 'we won the league' thing is getting old. Change the record, dude

That was last season. And if you think winning the league is some magic shield that protects you from everything then I have two words for you -Arne Slot.

Heaven help us all if Arteta ever takes advice from an idiot like me. But that doesnt mean I wont offer it

[Peter]

It made all the difference in the world! You cannot have forgotten we won the Premier League just a fortnight ago?

Fortunately, one of the things Arteta is certainly doing is refusing to take tactical advices from people like us. And the board is following suit by not caring a fig what people say about the Champions League; if we ever win it, it'll be for us, the Arsenal, and not because of bitter rivals' banter.

This whole 'we won the league' thing is getting old. Change the record, dude

That was last season. And if you think winning the league is some magic shield that protects you from everything then I have two words for you -Arne Slot.

Heaven help us all if Arteta ever takes advice from an idiot like me. But that doesnt mean I wont offer it

[redgunamo]

This whole 'we won the league' thing is getting old. Change the record, dude

That was last season. And if you think winning the league is some magic shield that protects you from everything then I have two words for you -Arne Slot.

Heaven help us all if Arteta ever takes advice from an idiot like me. But that doesnt mean I wont offer it

Yeah I did think about Slot. Different matter entirely. Essentially he achieved too much too quickly, before anyone at Anfield really knew if his face fitted there or not. It was easy for them to get rid of him, especially after their shopping spree.

The whole point of an experienced coach is that you don't have to give them time to build anything. People expect the finished article. But he would still be in a job at Liverpool had his second season been his first.

Mikel. on the other hand, has been plugged into an existing long-term project, with the full knowledge that, as a rookie, he will need lots of time and lots of money, which The Project was designed to provide in any case. This is his squad which he built from the ground up. He is the de facto leader of the club. Arne Slot was never that.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Yeah I did think about Slot. Different matter entirely. Essentially he achieved too much too quickly, before anyone at Anfield really knew if his face fitted there or not. It was easy for them to get rid of him, especially after their shopping spree.

The whole point of an experienced coach is that you don't have to give them time to build anything. People expect the finished article. But he would still be in a job at Liverpool had his second season been his first.

Mikel. on the other hand, has been plugged into an existing long-term project, with the full knowledge that, as a rookie, he will need lots of time and lots of money, which The Project was designed to provide in any case. This is his squad which he built from the ground up. He is the de facto leader of the club. Arne Slot was never that.

In 40 years, we've had Rioch for a year, Good Ebening for 18 months, and GG, AW and MA for the rest. We are so lucky to be the Arsenal.

The Times had a good article today saying that he's the only manager in the PL to have one it and he's the longest serving manager in the division. Everyone else has a new manager who'll be wanting to rebuilt. Not as completely as MA did when he came in and built an entire squad {with the exception of B and GabbyGol.} But they'll all wanna rebuild to some degree.

Hopefully most of them will get it all wrong and spunk loads of cash on players who don't work, taking a huge loss on players they've recently purchased. While we know where we are and can just get those additions we need. Kepa didn't do much but got us to a final winning a shoot-out. And Norgie didn't do much on the pitch but was apparently vital in the private team-talks in the run-in.

But all the other signings - Zubi, Vik, Noni, Easy, Hinchappy, Triphop - all played a role in us winning the league for the first time in yonks. Each and every won of them was a good value signing.

Hopefully Hinchappy and Ricky C will be happy to share the LB role. {I'd love JT and Benny Blanc to do the same on the right.} Triphop's won the league just before his 22nd birthday, a year younger than Big Tone.

If we can get three signings this summer that do as well, we'll be sorted. While hopefully all the other clubs will go through that period of signing players who aren't good enough. Sambi, Tavares, Rambo, Tomi, Jeez, Zinny, Fabio, Jorgy, Kiwior.

It was only the season after those two, with Dec, JT and Kai that we got 3 first team, title-winning players. The years before, it was only Benny Blanc and then Leo who made the grade. Big Gabby from the season before those. So hopefully, they'll all have 2-3 seasons of signing players who are transition players, not the long term solutions.

We want a summer like the Dec/Kai/JT one or last season. Everyone we buy goes straight into the starting XI or will be coming on from the bench.

We were so lucky Dec chose us over City. And we want the best players in the country to choose us not just as Dec did, because he liked the project and the Arsenal way, but in the way the best players went to LFC in the '80s and ManU under Fergie, cos it's the best manager and the most successful team.

I wonder if Big Gabby can tap up any Brazzas at the WC?

[Peter]

Yeah I did think about Slot. Different matter entirely. Essentially he achieved too much too quickly, before anyone at Anfield really knew if his face fitted there or not. It was easy for them to get rid of him, especially after their shopping spree.

The whole point of an experienced coach is that you don't have to give them time to build anything. People expect the finished article. But he would still be in a job at Liverpool had his second season been his first.

Mikel. on the other hand, has been plugged into an existing long-term project, with the full knowledge that, as a rookie, he will need lots of time and lots of money, which The Project was designed to provide in any case. This is his squad which he built from the ground up. He is the de facto leader of the club. Arne Slot was never that.

You make a genuinely interesting point. If Slot had finished fifth last season with these results, would he have stayed in a job? I think you're right, he would. He set the bar too high in his first season.

Interesting hearing Josh Kroenke talking about The Project. Apparently they love this approach in all their 'franchises'- young coach, right people around him, long term sustainable investment, and patience.

It is a good business model. Every other owner would agree- they just dont think it would work at their club

The luxury you have at Arsenal is patience. United couldn't have a five year plan to win the title. It has to be right now. This season. Or you're out.

That patience is a great thing. But once you are up there, it has to go out of the ****ing window. That is my point in this entire thread. We are at the summit. Let's do as much as we can, win as much as we can, and annoy people as much as we can until it all goes to **** again.