Let's forget about yesterday. Dwelling on that is not the answer.

[Rich]

I'm semi back on the wagon now that I've looked at the remaining fixtures (assuming we don't lose at City).

The big unknown that I have is 'how good really are City'. I've not watched them much this season as I find them souless but I know they have pretty routinely dropped points throughout the season. Have we seen anything to suggest that they're suddenly going to buck that trend?

I think my feelings of negativity were heightened by them winning away at Liverpool. But remember they were very poor that game too.

[Peter]

I'm semi back on the wagon now that I've looked at the remaining fixtures (assuming we don't lose at City).

The big unknown that I have is 'how good really are City'. I've not watched them much this season as I find them souless but I know they have pretty routinely dropped points throughout the season. Have we seen anything to suggest that they're suddenly going to buck that trend?

I think my feelings of negativity were heightened by them winning away at Liverpool. But remember they were very poor that game too.

Unfortunately our away form suggests we are pretty bloody likely to lose at City.

Lost at Liverpool, lost at Villa, drew with 10 man Chelsea. I think defeat at City is very, very likely. I'd be surprised if we avoided.

Our next three games are at spurs, home to Chelsea, away to Brighton. My guess is that after these three games, City will be above us, ir level.

We would need to win at City....... I'm not even going to bother finishing that sentence.

[Rich]

Unfortunately our away form suggests we are pretty bloody likely to lose at City.

Lost at Liverpool, lost at Villa, drew with 10 man Chelsea. I think defeat at City is very, very likely. I'd be surprised if we avoided.

Our next three games are at spurs, home to Chelsea, away to Brighton. My guess is that after these three games, City will be above us, ir level.

We would need to win at City....... I'm not even going to bother finishing that sentence.

We can easily get a 0-0 against City. We're very good at playing wihtout the ball. We've done it before there and we'll do it again. Plus if we get a corner this time around we could nick it 0-1.

[Peter]

We can easily get a 0-0 against City. We're very good at playing wihtout the ball. We've done it before there and we'll do it again. Plus if we get a corner this time around we could nick it 0-1.

Oh well, if it is easy then we'll be fine.....

[redgunamo]

Oh well, if it is easy then we'll be fine.....

Certainly doable.

I'm sure I don't know when and how we became so damn spoiled and entitled

[Peter]

Certainly doable.

I'm sure I don't know when and how we became so damn spoiled and entitled

It's not about entitlement. For me the frustration springs from precisely the opposite.

As you've said, these chances dont come along often for the likes of us and we have to take them when they do. We've had everything go for us. Can't ask for much more, title on a plate. It's a 3-foot putt..... and we've blown it.

Could be another 10 to 15 years before you get a chance as good as this...

[redgunamo]

It's not about entitlement. For me the frustration springs from precisely the opposite.

As you've said, these chances dont come along often for the likes of us and we have to take them when they do. We've had everything go for us. Can't ask for much more, title on a plate. It's a 3-foot putt..... and we've blown it.

Could be another 10 to 15 years before you get a chance as good as this...

Perhaps with a different manager, a change of manager. But with Mikel in charge and finishing second, that has proven not to be true. Indeed, we've been saying it for a few years now; one might hope we were more familiar with our potential and objectives now.

If we're solid runners-up every season, I'm not sure why you'd risk failing to qualify for the Champions League just for the sake of change for change's sake. We deliberated over this when Wenger was still in charge, right up until the moment he actually did fail to qualify us for the Champions League and the matter was taken out of our hands, so to speak

[Peter]

Perhaps with a different manager, a change of manager. But with Mikel in charge and finishing second, that has proven not to be true. Indeed, we've been saying it for a few years now; one might hope we were more familiar with our potential and objectives now.

If we're solid runners-up every season, I'm not sure why you'd risk failing to qualify for the Champions League just for the sake of change for change's sake. We deliberated over this when Wenger was still in charge, right up until the moment he actually did fail to qualify us for the Champions League and the matter was taken out of our hands, so to speak

Are we back to redefining success again?

I thought we'd done all that. I thought we wanted to be a football club again. One that sought to achieve rhe statistical anomaly of winning something... sometimes.

And if we are determined to lose, do we have to lose ugly?

[WES]

Are we back to redefining success again?

I thought we'd done all that. I thought we wanted to be a football club again. One that sought to achieve rhe statistical anomaly of winning something... sometimes.

And if we are determined to lose, do we have to lose ugly?

But red?s point which you did not address is a fair one, Peter. Form suggests that under Arteta these chances will not come every 10-15 years but far more frequently.

So no need to panic then.

[redgunamo]

But red?s point which you did not address is a fair one, Peter. Form suggests that under Arteta these chances will not come every 10-15 years but far more frequently.

So no need to panic then.

Right.

And to put it another way, if Pep left them in the Summer and Mikel (reluctantly, I'm sure ) were persuaded to go there, how long do we imagine it would take for him to win the league. I reckon about seven months.

We need to be careful

[redgunamo]

Are we back to redefining success again?

I thought we'd done all that. I thought we wanted to be a football club again. One that sought to achieve rhe statistical anomaly of winning something... sometimes.

And if we are determined to lose, do we have to lose ugly?

We've always been that way; winning something sometimes

[Peter]

But red?s point which you did not address is a fair one, Peter. Form suggests that under Arteta these chances will not come every 10-15 years but far more frequently.

So no need to panic then.

With respect, what we do does not create those opportunities. It just puts us in a position to take advantage of them.

Which we are currently failing to do.

[redgunamo]

With respect, what we do does not create those opportunities. It just puts us in a position to take advantage of them.

Which we are currently failing to do.

I really get the impression Mikel (with all his faults, inexperience etc.) is truly baked into this venture for the long haul, since KSE took full ownership of the club. Which is great if you love him, as I do, despite him not having been my ideal choice; possibly not so great if you're not all that bothered who our manager is or even fancy somebody else.

Anyway, they all (we all!) tolerated Wenger for fourteen years without a league title, nine of which went by without winning any trophy at all. Arteta possibly has a higher ceiling than that, and certainly a higher floor. That'll do, unless we've all been digesting too much anti-Arsenal messaging from our friends in the North-West. Obviously, and tellingly, they want him out.

[Peter]

I really get the impression Mikel (with all his faults, inexperience etc.) is truly baked into this venture for the long haul, since KSE took full ownership of the club. Which is great if you love him, as I do, despite him not having been my ideal choice; possibly not so great if you're not all that bothered who our manager is or even fancy somebody else.

Anyway, they all (we all!) tolerated Wenger for fourteen years without a league title, nine of which went by without winning any trophy at all. Arteta possibly has a higher ceiling than that, and certainly a higher floor. That'll do, unless we've all been digesting too much anti-Arsenal messaging from our friends in the North-West. Obviously, and tellingly, they want him out.

I think you are right, and he will be here for a while.

I just hope he changes a bit. We are due some fun

[redgunamo]

I think you are right, and he will be here for a while.

I just hope he changes a bit. We are due some fun

I love watching us play.

It's even better when we win, of course, but the game's the thing; you have to enjoy it or what's the point of it.