I'm getting that sinking feeling again.

[7sisters]

I didn't enjoy watching us be out of the league in January year after year and knowing that at some point in the season we will get absolutely pasted by 4 or 5 goals by a top four side.

I didn't enjoy that at all, and I hope we never go back there.

It?s a privileged moan though. Objective within Arsenal circles but we could be Spurs etc.
It only becomes more focal when the pots are actually in sight. Liverpools title defence has been a disaster, United are marginally happier but that?s coming from a low place. Villa & Chelsea stuttering and Newcastle just not pushing on.
Our fourth place trophy has been supplanted by a second place one. At least that?s some sort of progress, not that I?m subscribing to the thought that we should be happy with our lot.

[Peter]

How do you equate this view with our success in the CL? 8 wins in 8 games including comfortable wins over Bayern Munich and Atletico Madrid? Great games to watch, as well.

If what you say is true, how did this happen, Peter?

The two big wins there were at home. We generally do well at home. Some of the teams we have beaten were absolute ****.

Also bear in mind it was group stage. Remember playing PSG in the group stage last season? Very different to the side we faced in the knockout rounds. The big sides gather pace as the tournament progresses. Let's see what happens when it gets serious.

I'm not saying we are ****. Clearly we are not. But we are not quite good enough, and we are not getting better. Our league record demonstrates that pretty clearly. The squad gets bigger and better, but our performance levels don't.

You have to ask why. And maybe they will prove me wrong over the next 12 games. But nothing, literally nothing, about the past 18 months suggests they will.

[Peter]

It?s a privileged moan though. Objective within Arsenal circles but we could be Spurs etc.
It only becomes more focal when the pots are actually in sight. Liverpools title defence has been a disaster, United are marginally happier but that?s coming from a low place. Villa & Chelsea stuttering and Newcastle just not pushing on.
Our fourth place trophy has been supplanted by a second place one. At least that?s some sort of progress, not that I?m subscribing to the thought that we should be happy with our lot.

Absolutely. God almighty, we are so much better than when Arteta arrived, and he has done a great job.

But we have hit a ceiling. We are missing serious opportunities to win stuff and those opportunities don't come along very often when you are facing at least three sides that can hugely outspend you.

This squad can play better than this. We've seen them do it, with a smaller squad. That has to be said, and has to be addressed.

[PSRB]

Absolutely. God almighty, we are so much better than when Arteta arrived, and he has done a great job.

But we have hit a ceiling. We are missing serious opportunities to win stuff and those opportunities don't come along very often when you are facing at least three sides that can hugely outspend you.

This squad can play better than this. We've seen them do it, with a smaller squad. That has to be said, and has to be addressed.

We still have a 4 point lead. Also, beat Inter away in CL. I'm not going to doom and gloom it just yet.

[WES]

Absolutely. God almighty, we are so much better than when Arteta arrived, and he has done a great job.

But we have hit a ceiling. We are missing serious opportunities to win stuff and those opportunities don't come along very often when you are facing at least three sides that can hugely outspend you.

This squad can play better than this. We've seen them do it, with a smaller squad. That has to be said, and has to be addressed.

I agree with a lot of your points, Pedro, but you are being a bit impatient, I think. We did not have the squad depth to win the league despite all the improvement over the past few years. Saliba being injured cost us the league a few years back, we have much better cover now.

The answer is probably far more complicated than many of us want to think. Some combination of negative opponents, injuries, new players adjusting and Arteta still learning.

It should also be pointed out, again, especially to those who have concluded that we aren't good enough, that after 26 games we are 4 points clear at the top of the league.

You might also add to the list above the tendency for a lack of perspective on this place whenever we drop points.

Beer and fine wine is the answer here, I think

[Peter]

I agree with a lot of your points, Pedro, but you are being a bit impatient, I think. We did not have the squad depth to win the league despite all the improvement over the past few years. Saliba being injured cost us the league a few years back, we have much better cover now.

The answer is probably far more complicated than many of us want to think. Some combination of negative opponents, injuries, new players adjusting and Arteta still learning.

It should also be pointed out, again, especially to those who have concluded that we aren't good enough, that after 26 games we are 4 points clear at the top of the league.

You might also add to the list above the tendency for a lack of perspective on this place whenever we drop points.

Beer and fine wine is the answer here, I think

Yes, we lacked squad depth. But when we did, we performed better than we are doing now. Points totals higher, more goals. That is the point I am making.....

And on the subject of perspective, you have to at least admit I am consistent. I have been saying this all season, like a stuck record. From the very first game at Old Trafford, to Anfield, and on. And I said it all last season as well.

I complain when we win, clawing our way over the line 1-0 against a **** team. And I do it because I know those performances are not good enough, and that if you keep producing them you are going to come unstuck.

[WES]

Yes, we lacked squad depth. But when we did, we performed better than we are doing now. Points totals higher, more goals. That is the point I am making.....

And on the subject of perspective, you have to at least admit I am consistent. I have been saying this all season, like a stuck record. From the very first game at Old Trafford, to Anfield, and on. And I said it all last season as well.

I complain when we win, clawing our way over the line 1-0 against a **** team. And I do it because I know those performances are not good enough, and that if you keep producing them you are going to come unstuck.

The 98 double team won the league with 78 points. The Munichs won it with 79 points the next year.

We're on a pace for 83 points, you're being slightly harsh, I think

[Peter]

The 98 double team won the league with 78 points. The Munichs won it with 79 points the next year.

We're on a pace for 83 points, you're being slightly harsh, I think

Right. But when we fell apart in 2022/3, we finished on 84 points. In 2023/4, 89 points. In 2024/5, 74 points.

We are currently four points ahead of where we were last season. The drop is fairly clear.... even if we reach 83 points (and I don't think we will), it is still worse than three seasons ago where we had a paper thin squad.

And I know we won it with 78 points in 98. That just doesnt happen now.

[PSRB]

Probably also worth noting that in the last 10 games, Brentford have accumulated the same number of points as City and 1 fewer than us. They are bang in form.

[Peter]

Probably also worth noting that in the last 10 games, Brentford have accumulated the same number of points as City and 1 fewer than us. They are bang in form.

No question they are playing well, and are a decent side.

But does anyone actually think we played well last night? You have to admit that a lot of those errors were unforced....

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Have a look at their upcoming fixtures. A good City side walks those games.

We are banking on them being ****

Could happen. I just cannot get away from the fact that this squad of players is capable of producing much better performances than we have been seeing this season. And coming to the conclusion that the 3 month period post Dubai two years ago was the aberration. The rest of the last 2 and a half years is the norm.

This is what Arteta wants. **** knows why

A fit Kai, playing at his best?

[PSRB]

No question they are playing well, and are a decent side.

But does anyone actually think we played well last night? You have to admit that a lot of those errors were unforced....

A wouldn't have said either side set the world on fire last night and they're 2 of the top form teams

[Peter]

A fit Kai, playing at his best?

You can't explain that change in terms of one player. A prime Henry would not have this side knocking 5 and 6 past teams. He'd be making a series of runs, getting hugely frustrated, and spending most of his time dropping into his own half to try and carry the ball with him.

No question, Kai helped. But he was fully fit in the first half of last season and we were ****e then as well.... and we have some magnificent creative players who have really, really struggled in the last 6-12 months. They haven't suddenly become bad players.....

[redgunamo]

Have a look at their upcoming fixtures. A good City side walks those games.

We are banking on them being ****

Could happen. I just cannot get away from the fact that this squad of players is capable of producing much better performances than we have been seeing this season. And coming to the conclusion that the 3 month period post Dubai two years ago was the aberration. The rest of the last 2 and a half years is the norm.

This is what Arteta wants. **** knows why

This is the way. We're never going to beat Manchester City using conventional methods and we're never going to be better than them.

And it's hard enough trying to keep up in terms of results; we simply do not have resources to also deal with mystical elements like momentum and performances. Even controlling the underlying metrics will remain beyond us.

We merely want to win the league, we are simply not interested in being the best team and xg and playing well and winning every game.

We could play better but we'd get worse results.

[Peter]

This is the way. We're never going to beat Manchester City using conventional methods and we're never going to be better than them.

And it's hard enough trying to keep up in terms of results; we simply do not have resources to also deal with mystical elements like momentum and performances. Even controlling the underlying metrics will remain beyond us.

We merely want to win the league, we are simply not interested in being the best team and xg and playing well and winning every game.

We could play better but we'd get worse results.

We did play better. 2 and 3 years ago. We got better results. We didn't win the league but we got better results.