Amorim gone!

[redgunamo]

Yes. The owners have to agree on the model. What we had under Emery was a complete mess. And the transfers reflected that. All over the place.

I think they trusted Edu and he was a huge part of hiring Arteta. Between them, they did a superb job in turning things around. And it took a while.....

Is it terribly old-fashioned to believe results are more important than transfers, to a manager's prospects.

After all, Mikel was not "given" billions to spend on goal-shy superstar strikers; he had to EARN them. With Champions League qualifications and so on.

[Peter]

Is it terribly old-fashioned to believe results are more important than transfers, to a manager's prospects.

After all, Mikel was not "given" billions to spend on goal-shy superstar strikers; he had to EARN them. With Champions League qualifications and so on.

I don't think you can build a team without getting the transfers right. That doesn't mean spending billions or buying the very best. It means buying the right players, the ones you need. If you keep buying the wrong ones you are never going to get anywhere.

Arteta could not have changed the club without us getting that part right.

[redgunamo]

I don't think you can build a team without getting the transfers right. That doesn't mean spending billions or buying the very best. It means buying the right players, the ones you need. If you keep buying the wrong ones you are never going to get anywhere.

Arteta could not have changed the club without us getting that part right.

I mean coaching a team and getting results BEFORE YOU START building it. What's the use in throwing money after a manager who can't (or hasn't yet shown he can) get results.

Talking more about Amorim, I suppose. Manchester United already had a squad of players when he joined them.

[Peter]

I mean coaching a team and getting results BEFORE YOU START building it. What's the use in throwing money after a manager who can't (or hasn't yet shown he can) get results.

Talking more about Amorim, I suppose. Manchester United already had a squad of players when he joined them.

I take your point. But I don't think that getting the transfers right is a decision so much as an ability, based on clear decision making and an agreed focus.

Obviously you have to appoint the right coach as well, and one that fits with your transfer strategy. And then you have to spend well.

You have to get both right. My point with United is that the problem isnt the manager, it's the structure and the people making those decisions. No manager could resolve this.

Look at the 3-4-3 nonsense. If they don't want a coach who plays 3-4-3, why did they appoint one?

Idiocy. They made the same mistakes with the previous manager. He wanted a high pressing side that played out of the back. So they spent a fortune on a 30 year old midfielder and left him with a keeper who couldn't kick and Harry Maguire at centre back.

All over the shop

[PSRB]

Never had a chance really, once it was allowed to became clear that he was practically wedded to a particular formation and style of play, regardless of results and available resources (praise his virtues so hard to the point that they becomes vices). You can do that after a year or two, once you've proved yourself, but not from the start.

I mean; is he a coach or is he not. If he is then he should get on and COACH! If I'm a fat, gin-sodden club director, what the hell do I know or care about football tactics and formations and whatnot. That's why I hired a coach!

A bit like AW but by that point he didn't have the players and/or finances to get the ones that fit.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

A bit like AW but by that point he didn't have the players and/or finances to get the ones that fit.

Not sure I agree with that. We had a decade of penury but then the taps were turned on.

Ozil - great buy. Pure AW player.
Alexis - 24 goals a season from the wing. To go with Ozil and Santi - that's sexyball triangle heaven right there.

Then GX - AW signed him to be the deep lying playmaker, the new MA. But realised he got turned too easily and you couldn't give him all that responsibility. We only saw him at his best in his final season when he played further forward. But he wasn't gonna replace Santi or Ozil.

Mustaphi - not fit to lace Triphop or Hinchappy's boots, let alone be mentioned in the same breath as [I won't mention them.]

Laca - we should have either paid more or waited 6 months and got Auba for the extra 5 mil. We then wouldn't have had to have sold Olly and would have an extra 50 mil to strengthen right wing, DM or the back.

In short, the first two big money signings were great. Then they started to go down hill.

Imagine this team [upside down]

Auba [with Olly as back up] - Alexis, Ozil, some 50 mil right winger with the money saved from Laca - Santi, a pwoppa DM with the GX money - a defence that still has the likes of Nacho and Kos but with the 35m Mustaphi money {plus the original Gabriel 17m] added to it - Sir Chesney.

That's a decent team without any more money being spent. {Yes, I'm assuming our 50m right winger is more Saka than Willian, our DM is more Gilberto than Coq/Song etc.}

But I'm suggesting we did, just, have the finances.

Though not with the leeway that allows the best young ball-playing Eng CH, Benny Blanc, to be signed for 50 mil and now be 2nd choice RB. To have a 50+m Saka back up. To have about 170m of strikers fighting for one starting place.

But it was the GX, Mustaphi, Laca signings that were the problem, not the lack of money.

[Peter]

Not sure I agree with that. We had a decade of penury but then the taps were turned on.

Ozil - great buy. Pure AW player.
Alexis - 24 goals a season from the wing. To go with Ozil and Santi - that's sexyball triangle heaven right there.

Then GX - AW signed him to be the deep lying playmaker, the new MA. But realised he got turned too easily and you couldn't give him all that responsibility. We only saw him at his best in his final season when he played further forward. But he wasn't gonna replace Santi or Ozil.

Mustaphi - not fit to lace Triphop or Hinchappy's boots, let alone be mentioned in the same breath as [I won't mention them.]

Laca - we should have either paid more or waited 6 months and got Auba for the extra 5 mil. We then wouldn't have had to have sold Olly and would have an extra 50 mil to strengthen right wing, DM or the back.

In short, the first two big money signings were great. Then they started to go down hill.

Imagine this team [upside down]

Auba [with Olly as back up] - Alexis, Ozil, some 50 mil right winger with the money saved from Laca - Santi, a pwoppa DM with the GX money - a defence that still has the likes of Nacho and Kos but with the 35m Mustaphi money {plus the original Gabriel 17m] added to it - Sir Chesney.

That's a decent team without any more money being spent. {Yes, I'm assuming our 50m right winger is more Saka than Willian, our DM is more Gilberto than Coq/Song etc.}

But I'm suggesting we did, just, have the finances.

Though not with the leeway that allows the best young ball-playing Eng CH, Benny Blanc, to be signed for 50 mil and now be 2nd choice RB. To have a 50+m Saka back up. To have about 170m of strikers fighting for one starting place.

But it was the GX, Mustaphi, Laca signings that were the problem, not the lack of money.

Possibly controversial but Alexis- i never warmed to him.

Good player in a bad side but the better you get the more his selfishness, ego and lack of game intelligence become a liability.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Possibly controversial but Alexis- i never warmed to him.

Good player in a bad side but the better you get the more his selfishness, ego and lack of game intelligence become a liability.

A 30 goal a season winger who interacted perfectly with Ozil and Santi, ripping teams apart? Yeah, a leetle beet controversial imo.

Can't believe you're criticising his game management

If we'd had him, Auba, Ozil and a fit Santi we'd have just needed a DM and 2 CHs. Would have been fine with a Parlour on the right, tucking in, given that goal power elsewhere.

[Peter]

A 30 goal a season winger who interacted perfectly with Ozil and Santi, ripping teams apart? Yeah, a leetle beet controversial imo.

Can't believe you're criticising his game management

If we'd had him, Auba, Ozil and a fit Santi we'd have just needed a DM and 2 CHs. Would have been fine with a Parlour on the right, tucking in, given that goal power elsewhere.

Game intelligence and game management are not the same thing, and i think you know that

Cazorla was a wonderful footballer.

[WES]

Game intelligence and game management are not the same thing, and i think you know that

Cazorla was a wonderful footballer.

Alexis comment not controversial at all for me. A talented player who played for himself and only himself. Wenger's problem in his latter years was that he had far too many of those, and he tolerated them far too often. See Aaron Ramsey as well.

Can you imagine Alexis being asked by Arteta to focus on his defensive responsibilities for the good of the team?

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Game intelligence and game management are not the same thing, and i think you know that

Cazorla was a wonderful footballer.

Damn. You saw through my cunning deception.

But Santi is close to my fave ever player.

My ideal team could well be a goalie, 2 CHs, a pwoppa striker, and 7 Santi Cazorlas. Though tbf, he could probably play as the false 9 as well.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Alexis comment not controversial at all for me. A talented player who played for himself and only himself. Wenger's problem in his latter years was that he had far too many of those, and he tolerated them far too often. See Aaron Ramsey as well.

Can you imagine Alexis being asked by Arteta to focus on his defensive responsibilities for the good of the team?

Do you remember that 3-0 win vs ManU where Alexis, Ozil and Santi just walked through the MU team and scored 3 in 30 mins?

That is not a selfish player. That is a player who only thinks it worth passing to people as good as him.

And he didn't need to track back as much cos Nacho was a pwoppa LB, not inverting into MF all the time.

In Leo's first full season, we were one win away from the title and he scored 17 from the LW, same as Limpar in '91 and Marcy in '98. And he doesn't track back half as well as Gabby.

Had Leo scored 24 like Alexis did, we'd have won the title. Fact.

This is not in any way a diss of Leo, or Anders or Overmars or Bobby P who only scored 15 from the left wing in title winning seasons.

I'm just saying that when you have Cech in goal, Mustaphi at CH, GX at DM, Iwobi at RW, Laca or Olly up top then Alexis scoring 20-odd a season is the least of your worries.

He was a goal-scoring winger, like Anders, Marcy and Bobby. And if they score enough, you win the title if the other 10 can play football and do their jobs.

If B could get 24 league goals this season, it wouldn't matter if Kai, Jeez and Vik only scored half a dozen more league goals between them.

Alexis was selfish, Ozil did show enough passion with his body lingo. FFS, those weren't our problems. Nor was it even a certain Welsher MF who won us 2 cup finals and at his best scored 16 in a season without taking pens or FKs.

Our problems were the fact that I'm a better CH than Mustafi, a better goalie than Cech and for all his skill and commitment, the fact that an oil tanker has a smaller turning circle than GX meant he didn't work as a lone DM, lacking a 2nd pivot or an inverting FB.

The only class in the latter years were Alexis and Ozil with Santi and then with Laca {AOL.}

Wasn't there some rap song decades ago that went I've a thousand and one problems but Alexis ain't one?

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

PS - "Can you imagine Alexis being asked by Arteta to focus on his defensive responsibilities for the good of the team?"

Different team, different era.

You might as well ask whether Big Paddy Jennings would be good at passing the ball around in his own box.

[redgunamo]

PS - "Can you imagine Alexis being asked by Arteta to focus on his defensive responsibilities for the good of the team?"

Different team, different era.

You might as well ask whether Big Paddy Jennings would be good at passing the ball around in his own box.

Jennings was actually quite good with the ball at his feet; notably, unfashionably so, ahead of his time.

[redgunamo]

Not sure I agree with that. We had a decade of penury but then the taps were turned on.

Ozil - great buy. Pure AW player.
Alexis - 24 goals a season from the wing. To go with Ozil and Santi - that's sexyball triangle heaven right there.

Then GX - AW signed him to be the deep lying playmaker, the new MA. But realised he got turned too easily and you couldn't give him all that responsibility. We only saw him at his best in his final season when he played further forward. But he wasn't gonna replace Santi or Ozil.

Mustaphi - not fit to lace Triphop or Hinchappy's boots, let alone be mentioned in the same breath as [I won't mention them.]

Laca - we should have either paid more or waited 6 months and got Auba for the extra 5 mil. We then wouldn't have had to have sold Olly and would have an extra 50 mil to strengthen right wing, DM or the back.

In short, the first two big money signings were great. Then they started to go down hill.

Imagine this team [upside down]

Auba [with Olly as back up] - Alexis, Ozil, some 50 mil right winger with the money saved from Laca - Santi, a pwoppa DM with the GX money - a defence that still has the likes of Nacho and Kos but with the 35m Mustaphi money {plus the original Gabriel 17m] added to it - Sir Chesney.

That's a decent team without any more money being spent. {Yes, I'm assuming our 50m right winger is more Saka than Willian, our DM is more Gilberto than Coq/Song etc.}

But I'm suggesting we did, just, have the finances.

Though not with the leeway that allows the best young ball-playing Eng CH, Benny Blanc, to be signed for 50 mil and now be 2nd choice RB. To have a 50+m Saka back up. To have about 170m of strikers fighting for one starting place.

But it was the GX, Mustaphi, Laca signings that were the problem, not the lack of money.

The trouble wasn't so much the money we had but the money our rivals had. That side was certainly worth a title, in different times.