I see Brian Harvey has gone proper radio...

[Burney]

Or one about their parents.

I mentioned my parents' feelings as exemplifying the fact that there were many, many, many different reasons why people voted Remain. The specific purpose was to make clear that they were not symptomatic or emblematic of anyone else and that generalisations were idiotic.

Your anecdote, on the other hand, was explicitly about the only leave voter you knew and was meant to suggest that huge numbers of Leave voters were idiots who had no idea what they were doing. In fact, all it actually served to demonstrate was the narrow range of political opinion in your social circle. Echo chamber thinking, in other words.

[Burney]

Surely May is only conceding ground to them because when push comes to shove she knows she can rely on Parliament voting for whatever deal she brings back, because the alternative will be No Deal?

Or does the Parliamentary arithmetic not back that up?

You think Labour will back a deal rather than take the opportunity to bring down the government? Why? They haven't so far.

Equally, the ERG increasingly sees No Deal as the least worst option and it's looking like a deal isn't possible. Largely unnoticed the other day, the ERG slipped in an amendment to the Chequers Bill that effectively destroys the backstop clause for Northern Ireland, regarded as the guarantee there’ll be no hard border with the Republic. If that's the case, all bets are off. That would put in jeopardy the entire Withdrawal Agreement - which if it collapsed would mean a no-deal Brexit becomes virtually certain.

[Monty92]

You think Labour will back a deal rather than take the opportunity to bring down the government? Why? They haven't so far.

Equally, the ERG increasingly sees No Deal as the least worst option and it's looking like a deal isn't possible. Largely unnoticed the other day, the ERG slipped in an amendment to the Chequers Bill that effectively destroys the backstop clause for Northern Ireland, regarded as the guarantee there’ll be no hard border with the Republic. If that's the case, all bets are off. That would put in jeopardy the entire Withdrawal Agreement - which if it collapsed would mean a no-deal Brexit becomes virtually certain.

But wouldn't Labour be relying on Tory rebels to get the numbers required to vote down the deal? This is where my Parliamentary arithmetic fails me...

[Burney]

But wouldn't Labour be relying on Tory rebels to get the numbers required to vote down the deal? This is where my Parliamentary arithmetic fails me...

Of course, but why would that bother them? The ERG has shown it's better organised, better led and more committed than the Remain rebels. If you think it'll back down if offered an unsatisfactory fait accompli deal, I suspect you're mistaken.

[Monty92]

Of course, but why would that bother them? The ERG has shown it's better organised, better led and more committed than the Remain rebels. If you think it'll back down if offered an unsatisfactory fait accompli deal, I suspect you're mistaken.

.
Yes, but what both have in common is a refusal to push things far enough to risk a GE.

Which can only be achieved by concessions on both sides and the ERG falling into line come the vote.

[Peter]

It shouldn't be necessary to have to qualify that when you use the pronoun "they" you don't necessarily actually mean "everyone"

So your point is that some people did vote to be poorer.

Or maybe some people voted for other people to be poorer?

[Burney]

.
Yes, but what both have in common is a refusal to push things far enough to risk a GE.

Which can only be achieved by concessions on both sides and the ERG falling into line come the vote.

The ERG has only just started to flex its muscles, though. And it has the party membership behind them. May is now effectively their hostage.
Bear in mind also that Eurosceptics have been nurturing their grievances for decades and that theirs is an ideological position. They’re not going to back down just because they’re threatened with a GE by a PM they despise.

[Monty92]

So your point is that some people did vote to be poorer.

Or maybe some people voted for other people to be poorer?

My point is that Soubry and her fellow remainers (including the entire global political and economic establishment) spent the entire campaign telling people that leaving would make them poorer.

Even if they didn't understand the precise reasons why, we can surely assume they understood the basic concept of leaving making them poorer.

So it seems odd for her to then come out and say "people didn't vote to be poorer"

[Peter]

My point is that Soubry and her fellow remainers (including the entire global political and economic establishment) spent the entire campaign telling people that leaving would make them poorer.

Even if they didn't understand the precise reasons why, we can surely assume they understood the basic concept of leaving making them poorer.

So it seems odd for her to then come out and say "people didn't vote to be poorer"

Fair enough. We dont know why they voted the way they did but we do know the information they were given.

We cant say they voted to be poorer anymore than she can claim that none of them did.

Of course, we dont actually want to be poorer.

[IUFG]

Fair enough. We dont know why they voted the way they did but we do know the information they were given.

We cant say they voted to be poorer anymore than she can claim that none of them did.

Of course, we dont actually want to be poorer.

ironically, if we remain/ed we'll get to vote on approximately the square root of fúck all on all matters that the EU want to impose.