Martinelli

[Peter]

I think he just needs to be a bit nastier....like when he shoved Bradley off the pitch Perhaps also lacking a bit in belief, which he shouldn't.

He needs to be playing more of his football infield. Too often he is receiving the ball out on the line.

And his decisions could be more consistent. That has always been Saka's biggest strength- until recently....

[Peter]

I think you have your rose tinted glasses on over Ljunberg. He was a great player but Saka?s overall contribution is far higher and at a much younger stage in his development.
The frustrating side of Ljungberg were those head down runs along the left channel that invariably led to him running into a cul de sac and getting dispossessed. Saka, at least, can provide a cross from the tightest of spaces, often with two defenders bearing down on him. Ljungberg just ran out of options too often; although, he worked the space better and was always there to stab it home.
We?re probably missing a player like him around the box these days.

And even based on performances solely between the ages of 18-24, Saka outperforms Ljungberg's spell with arsenal in goals (57 to 46) on precisely the same number of league games. In a worse side.

They dont provide assist data for Freddie's era but I think we all know he would hugely outperform him there as well.....

[PSRB]

As opposed to the longstanding awards voted for by the players or the football writers?

Do you know why Freddie won that award and not the other two? Because the other two are voted for before the season ends. Freddie's award was based heavily on an astonishing run of form late in the season. Great- but hardly an accurate reflection of his career. Or of that season as a whole.

I find fault with the trophy argument. That is confusing an individual's quality with the quality of the team they played in. It would mean Kevin Richardson was better than Cesc Fabregas.

Saka has a lot of football ahead of him, and if we are going to win anything this season it will be because he rediscovered his form. I'm not convnced we can do it without him.

End of the day, Nedved beat Henry to the Balon D'or because he won the CL and had a decent WC Henry was sensational across the whole 12 months.

[John Bunnell]

I think you have your rose tinted glasses on over Ljunberg. He was a great player but Saka?s overall contribution is far higher and at a much younger stage in his development.
The frustrating side of Ljungberg were those head down runs along the left channel that invariably led to him running into a cul de sac and getting dispossessed. Saka, at least, can provide a cross from the tightest of spaces, often with two defenders bearing down on him. Ljungberg just ran out of options too often; although, he worked the space better and was always there to stab it home.
We?re probably missing a player like him around the box these days.

I don't think I do. Freddie's first few seasons for us were excellent, definitely better than anything Saka has. He had very good goal & assist numbers in both the invincible season and the double season, so his contribution in two of our best seasons in history is significant.

The Ljungberg you're describing reminds me of his last two seasons for us where he fell off a cliff in form, but I'm not judging him on that.

[John Bunnell]

And even based on performances solely between the ages of 18-24, Saka outperforms Ljungberg's spell with arsenal in goals (57 to 46) on precisely the same number of league games. In a worse side.

They dont provide assist data for Freddie's era but I think we all know he would hugely outperform him there as well.....

Oh what tosh. Saka's numbers are inflated by penalties. And Freddie had plentiful assists maybe not as good as Saka but he had a load of them.

There's no way any Arsenal fan can seriously say Saka has done any season better than Ljungberg 2001-02 and 04-05

[Peter]

I don't think I do. Freddie's first few seasons for us were excellent, definitely better than anything Saka has. He had very good goal & assist numbers in both the invincible season and the double season, so his contribution in two of our best seasons in history is significant.

The Ljungberg you're describing reminds me of his last two seasons for us where he fell off a cliff in form, but I'm not judging him on that.

In all competitions...

Freddie 2001/2- 17 goals, 5 assists
Freddie 2003/4- 10 goals, 9 assists

Saka 20212- 12 goals, 7 assists
Saka 2022/3- 14 goals, 12 assists
Saka 2023/4- 20 goals, 17 assists
Saka 2024/5- 12 goals, 14 assists

Overall record, Saka is ahead on goals, miles ahead on assists, from fewer games, and is still only 24.

The stats only point one way, I'm afraid.

[Peter]

Oh what tosh. Saka's numbers are inflated by penalties. And Freddie had plentiful assists maybe not as good as Saka but he had a load of them.

There's no way any Arsenal fan can seriously say Saka has done any season better than Ljungberg 2001-02 and 04-05

And here come the caveats...... assist data below, by the way. But I guess you will say that Saka's are inflated by the excellence of his corners.....

There is a reason Saka takes penalties and Freddie didn't.... ditto corners.

[PSRB]

Also, Penalties
21/22 - 2
22/23 - 2
23/24 - 6
24/25 - 1
This season - 1

[John Bunnell]

And here come the caveats...... assist data below, by the way. But I guess you will say that Saka's are inflated by the excellence of his corners.....

There is a reason Saka takes penalties and Freddie didn't.... ditto corners.

Why have you omitted Freddie's 04/05 season? You know where he won the Invincible trophy? Got 14 goals in about 10 games less than Saka and without penalties.

It's all very well rubbing one off about stats but Ljungberg is the one who played pivotal roles in our two most successful seasons and has legend status. I suppose Saka helped win us some Community Shields tho eh?

[PSRB]

Why have you omitted Freddie's 04/05 season? You know where he won the Invincible trophy? Got 14 goals in about 10 games less than Saka and without penalties.

It's all very well rubbing one off about stats but Ljungberg is the one who played pivotal roles in our two most successful seasons and has legend status. I suppose Saka helped win us some Community Shields tho eh?

*Cough* Invincibles was 03/04