Anyway, I can't get excited about football. My joy over the election is too fresh.

[Burney]

I don’t think it’s the whole story and it’s obviously laughable to say that Corbyn personally would have been a vote winner without Brexit, but I do think it’s conceivable that they could have won the election without the spectre of Brexit.

But the election only occurred because of Brexit. Without Brexit, Cameron would still be in charge and (presumably) still using the useless old c@nt to mop the floor every PMQTs.

[Monty92]

But Corbyn was forced to move away from a leave position by the party rules on how policy is set. As we are so often told, he is very likely pro-Brexit himself.

It’s a bit like blaming Boris for us not leaving on 31 October without acknowledging the role of the Benn Act.

No. Corbyn is not not PM because he was unfortunate enough to be around during Brexit. Indeed, Brexit gave him a boost in 2017 because Labour soaked up the anti-brexit protest vote and the traditional heartland pro-leave vote. Over two years of being terrible, he's become toxic as more of his personal and political shortcomings became more and more apparent.

Besides which, arguing that Corbyn might have become PM if it weren't for the most vexed political issue of the age is a joke of an argument. It's like saying Theresa May could have been the next Margaret Thatcher if it weren't for Brexit.

The whole point is that you want to elect someone who can deal with such issues.

[Burney]

But Corbyn was forced to move away from a leave position by the party rules on how policy is set. As we are so often told, he is very likely pro-Brexit himself.

It’s a bit like blaming Boris for us not leaving on 31 October without acknowledging the role of the Benn Act.

That's totally irrelevant. He is the leader of his party and couldn't lead his party in such a way as to arrive at a coherent policy. That is his failure. Besides which, his personal popularity has always been terrible and has only got worse.

[Burney]

OK, my view for what it's worth. Labour can only go for a leader who comes from their heartlands , so Midlands or North. Nobody up here feels connected to way the Labour paty have become over the last few years, so they need to go back to basics and reconnect with traditional voters. it will be a long job but the only way they can get back in power eventually.

The Tory party cannot ignore the North as they have done for years as they know that if they fail to deliver then these new voters will desert them in droves and will not return.

I do fear that Johnson is in this for himself and that the next 5 yrs will end up a ****fest for the UK.

by the way, i do believe I predicted the result all along

What 'heartlands' would those be? They don't own them anymore.

Oddly enough, I think he will deliver for these areas. This is a particular obsession of Dominic Cummings and I would expect to see this happen in a big way.

Mind you, I'd guess there's also a calculation that, five years down the road from Brexit, a lot of the remain-voting ex-tory constituencies in the south will come back into the fold, too.

With boundaries being re-drawn to take away their current advantage and them being dead in Scotland, I wouldn't give you tuppence for Labour's future chances of forming a majority government.

[PSRB]

What 'heartlands' would those be? They don't own them anymore.

Oddly enough, I think he will deliver for these areas. This is a particular obsession of Dominic Cummings and I would expect to see this happen in a big way.

Mind you, I'd guess there's also a calculation that, five years down the road from Brexit, a lot of the remain-voting ex-tory constituencies in the south will come back into the fold, too.

With boundaries being re-drawn to take away their current advantage and them being dead in Scotland, I wouldn't give you tuppence for Labour's future chances of forming a majority government.

I do think the "heartlands" couldn't connect with a millionaire champagne socialist whose based in Islington

[Monty92]

So what would have been a coherent policy on Brexit, based on the options available to him?

That's totally irrelevant. He is the leader of his party and couldn't lead his party in such a way as to arrive at a coherent policy. That is his failure. Besides which, his personal popularity has always been terrible and has only got worse.

[Pokster]

I do think the "heartlands" couldn't connect with a millionaire champagne socialist whose based in Islington

Exactly!!!!!

[Burney]

So what would have been a coherent policy on Brexit, based on the options available to him?

Well the clever thing to do when they were still sitting on the fence would have been to allow May's deal to go through by making it a free vote and encouraging abstentions from those in leave-voting constituencies (on the grounds that the people's will had to be respected or some such guff). That would have looked noble and magnanimous and allowed the party free rein to still criticise the outcomes with relatively clean hands.

[WES]

So what would have been a coherent policy on Brexit, based on the options available to him?

Support Leave on democratic principles but make the argument that while the Tories would sell out to Trump and disregard workers rights blah blah blah, Labour will negotiate a free trade deal that protects blah blah blah

There was all sorts of ammunition they could have used to argue that they would get a better deal

[Monty92]

At the 2018 party conference, BEFORE May had brought her deal back to Parliament, they voted for a second referendum.

Labour members were never, ever going to allow the party to vote through a Tory Brexit

Well the clever thing to do when they were still sitting on the fence would have been to allow May's deal to go through by making it a free vote and encouraging abstentions from those in leave-voting constituencies (on the grounds that the people's will had to be respected or some such guff). That would have looked noble and magnanimous and allowed the party free rein to still criticise the outcomes with relatively clean hands.