Yup. Nothing undemocratic about that there EU.

[WES]

You don't see a growing body of anti-EU sentiment thorughout member states? Really? You haven't noticed that?

Weird flex but OK.

Yes, I see that growing sentiment. But I don’t see any of them voting to leave. Something I would expect to see if the EU really was what you claim it to be.

[Monty92]

Yes, I see that growing sentiment. But I don’t see any of them voting to leave. Something I would expect to see if the EU really was what you claim it to be.

The common sentiment held by Remainers about Leavers is that they are too ignorant and ill-informed to see beyond the caricature of the EU ("bendy bananas", "blue passports",) and fail to understand why it is in essence a force for good.

But perhaps it is Remainers who are too ignorant and ill-informed to see beyond the caricature of Leavers and fail to understand that they may simply hold entirely reasonable and legitimate objections to the philosophical ideology that underpins the EU.

[redgunamo]

Yeah, that's the whole point, see? European people do whatever they're told to do by their betters.

Yes, I see that growing sentiment. But I don’t see any of them voting to leave. Something I would expect to see if the EU really was what you claim it to be.

[Ash]

No, 13 of them admitted they accidentally voted the wrong way. The bias in the original blog is the way he interpreted what had occurred and attributed it to the EU not being democratic. Something the Guardian did not do.

You’re reading what you want to read, Ash

Are you quite sure that I am the one reading what I want to read?

In fact the Guardian piece does cite a source that accuses the EU of switching the order in a deliberate attempt to manipulate the outcome.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...-too-bad.shtml

The same piece also shows how the EU recognised the error on their voting record, essentially correcting it, while refusing to correct the important outcome on the bill. They have clearly subverted what democratic processes exist in the machinery, to force a very controversial law through, with substantial impacts on many aspects of internet use, including free speech and sharing of information. Check out the link tax. We might not, in future, even be able to post the links and quotes that we have on this thread discussing it.

In short, everything the right-wing loon posted on his site is sourced, and not made up as you claimed. And while some of his language may have been a leetle beet rhetorical (god forbid any of us ever do that on the internet), his point stands. There is evidence of procedural manipulation to subvert democracy and impose an authoritarian law. Textbook EU, some might say. Excuse the rhetoric.

[Ash]

The common sentiment held by Remainers about Leavers is that they are too ignorant and ill-informed to see beyond the caricature of the EU ("bendy bananas", "blue passports",) and fail to understand why it is in essence a force for good.

But perhaps it is Remainers who are too ignorant and ill-informed to see beyond the caricature of Leavers and fail to understand that they may simply hold entirely reasonable and legitimate objections to the philosophical ideology that underpins the EU.

GPWM. One irony is that while Leavers are portrayed as knuckle-dragging xylophones spewing bigotry and hatred, most of the bigotry and hatred I have witnessed in our great, progressive metropolis here has been directed against Leavers.

Yet the biggest irony of all, and one which might persuade actual racists like you to vote Remain in the return leg, is that Remain is in fact the option for those who want a whiter Britain. Were we to actually leave, any requirements to import labour would open up to the world on an equal basis, rather than the predominantly white European reserve army of cheap labour that the economy has become addicted to - at least in some sectors, and particularly in London.

[eastgermanautos]

https://order-order.com/2019/03/28/m...ay-article-13/

What is this trash you're reading. "Euro-Guido" forsooth. Get a hobby bro. Macrame.

[Monty92]

GPWM. One irony is that while Leavers are portrayed as knuckle-dragging xylophones spewing bigotry and hatred, most of the bigotry and hatred I have witnessed in our great, progressive metropolis here has been directed against Leavers.

Yet the biggest irony of all, and one which might persuade actual racists like you to vote Remain in the return leg, is that Remain is in fact the option for those who want a whiter Britain. Were we to actually leave, any requirements to import labour would open up to the world on an equal basis, rather than the predominantly white European reserve army of cheap labour that the economy has become addicted to - at least in some sectors, and particularly in London.

I am NOT an "actual racist". Allans aren't a race and some of my favourite Awimbers are black (not that fat lass who used to post)

[Pokster]

Are you quite sure that I am the one reading what I want to read?

In fact the Guardian piece does cite a source that accuses the EU of switching the order in a deliberate attempt to manipulate the outcome.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...-too-bad.shtml

The same piece also shows how the EU recognised the error on their voting record, essentially correcting it, while refusing to correct the important outcome on the bill. They have clearly subverted what democratic processes exist in the machinery, to force a very controversial law through, with substantial impacts on many aspects of internet use, including free speech and sharing of information. Check out the link tax. We might not, in future, even be able to post the links and quotes that we have on this thread discussing it.

In short, everything the right-wing loon posted on his site is sourced, and not made up as you claimed. And while some of his language may have been a leetle beet rhetorical (god forbid any of us ever do that on the internet), his point stands. There is evidence of procedural manipulation to subvert democracy and impose an authoritarian law. Textbook EU, some might say. Excuse the rhetoric.

I think it is fair to say that the EU has huge problems....as done the UK, we had a vote and our elected MP's won't carry it out, is that democracy working any better or worse than what the EU have done?

[Monty92]

We can hold our elected mps to account by voting them out.

I can’t believe this still needs emphasising.

I think it is fair to say that the EU has huge problems....as done the UK, we had a vote and our elected MP's won't carry it out, is that democracy working any better or worse than what the EU have done?

[Ash]

I think it is fair to say that the EU has huge problems....as done the UK, we had a vote and our elected MP's won't carry it out, is that democracy working any better or worse than what the EU have done?

They will be answerable to the electorate in the next election. Both main parties said they would honour the referendum result in their manifestos. The LibNonDems said they would ignore it won almost no seats, and UKIPs vote collapsed because its job was done.

The failure to honour the result will be punished. How many seats can 17 odd million win all voting for a new party?