Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
This is how upside-down leftism has become. The pwopah old-school internationalism was based on solidarity among workers, and an understanding that nationalism was a capitalist tool to get workers to side with their respective national bourgeoisie. "Workers of the world unite!" as the man said.

On the contrary, the globalism of the EU benefits the capitalist class (ease of movement for their capital) and their middle-class hangers-on (don't you just love these cheap builders, baristas and au-pairs, darling) while forcing elements of the working class to chase around the continent for jobs.

Supra-nationalism not the new default position. It doesn't exist outside of the EU other than in empires, and national self-determination is currently the best geopolitical unit of democracy available.

I have nothing against the nation state, aside from the fact that it pulled Europe to pieces for a century. The fact remains that the idea existed at a time when it was possible to identify a nation's economy and its immediate issues. Those are now less obvious.

The modern nation state is a political unit that doesn't reflect how the world works and how the global economy runs. This is not necessarily a problem unless you want your government to run its economy. As I said, I am not suggesting that supra-national bodies are any better- what they may offer in terms of broader boundaries they lose in a lack of accountability and conflicting priority from constituent members.

However, we are really talking about how people feel. Our view of our own independence is a little old fashioned and harks back to an age when a government did control our economy (and the economies of half the developing world). I am not sure the same advantages exist now. We shall see.

The point being, independence is not what it was. I dont necessarily view the nation state as a cause worth fighting for but am happy to live in it if it makes people better off. If it doesn't, it was not a price worth paying.