Meanwhile, over at The Guardian, vicious arguments between 'Remainers' and

[Burney]

Right talk me through that one.

Ask yourself why we've been so consistently outvoted in the Council of Ministers, but have so rarely used our veto.

[The Jorge]

Ask yourself why we've been so consistently outvoted in the Council of Ministers, but have so rarely used our veto.

To save the veto for the important things, because that's what it is for.

Are you seriously suggesting that any PM that felt strongly about Turkey joining would somehow not be allowed to exercise their veto? I mean, it does look like Penny is lying there.

[Luis Anaconda]

Angie can be most persuasive, when she wants to be. And the whole world knows there's no sense differing with a German woman once she's bent on persuading you of something

The Voice of Experience

[The Jorge]

Angie can be most persuasive, when she wants to be. And the whole world knows there's no sense differing with a German woman once she's bent on persuading you of something

She just needs a massage from a real strong man

[Burney]

To save the veto for the important things, because that's what it is for.

Are you seriously suggesting that any PM that felt strongly about Turkey joining would somehow not be allowed to exercise their veto? I mean, it does look like Penny is lying there.

I'm saying that other pressures can be brought to bear, yes. I'm also saying that any time we have used our veto, it has caused huge ructions and calls for us to be sidelined from such votes. That would happen in this instance.

Are you seriously trying to say that there haven't been similar stitch-ups in the past?

[The Jorge]

I'm saying that other pressures can be brought to bear, yes. I'm also saying that any time we have used our veto, it has caused huge ructions and calls for us to be sidelined from such votes. That would happen in this instance.

Are you seriously trying to say that there haven't been similar stitch-ups in the past?

Not that I can think of. Though I do think we're also phenomenally bad at playing the EU game.

[Burney]

You don't remember the 2002 Chirac-Schroeder deal on the CAP that basically overrode all discussion prior to that then, no? That's how the EU operates. It will ultimately do whatever it wants to do regardless. All debate is strictly cosmetic.

[Brentwood]

I'm going to vote remain because I think Mark Carney is pretty well respected and independent and says we should remain

I also think it is unlikely that we will leave and suddenly the EU member countries will individually give us better trade agreements than the one we'd be walking away from.

Apart from that, it just becomes a personality contest where I'm making my decision based on the people representing each camp (seeing as nobody can possibly know what will happen for sure)

[Burney]

I'm going to vote remain because I think Mark Carney is pretty well respected and independent and says we should remain

I also think it is unlikely that we will leave and suddenly the EU member countries will individually give us better trade agreements than the one we'd be walking away from.

Apart from that, it just becomes a personality contest where I'm making my decision based on the people representing each camp (seeing as nobody can possibly know what will happen for sure)

If you believe Mark Carney is independent, you're out of your mind. He's a fully paid-up Remainer and has been from the word go.

https://twitter.com/markabroad/statu...rc=twsrc%5Etfw