Hilarious.. They're in such a mess.
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Hilarious.. They're in such a mess.
wonder who they will go for next?Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
Emery perhaps
Did he nick Starc behind like the rest of them?Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
Nice one, G :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
Him or Iraola, I reckon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Vegas
he's a safe bet I think. I think Emery has a certain level he reaches but he'd steady the ship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Ineos have hardly covered themselves in glory. Retaining ten bob Hag after the FA Cup final then binning him off a few months into the new season. The Dan Ashworth chappie as director of football. Amorin. Despite being 6th in the table (level on points with 5th).Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
Fergie in!
That club is in all sorts of trouble. Even Ferguson at his prime couldn't sort this out.Quote:
Originally Posted by pjlincs
I think as long as their ownership model remains, they are ****ed.
We rightly give Arteta huge credit for turning the club around but resolving the situation above him was the key. His relationship with Edu was key. The transfer business has been excellent, albeit expensive.
This Amorim stuff shows it can fall apart quite quickly. I do hope this Berta chap knows his place :-)
His relationship with the owners too, of course. I remember Josh Kroenke was very visible and re-assuring in the public eye when Arteta took over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Sort of 'we are 100% sure we have the right man and will continue to back you until it comes good'
Might just be me but I was shocked to notice that they are in 6th and only 3 points off the CL.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
How the f*ck did that happen given how **** they've been?
Yes. The owners have to agree on the model. What we had under Emery was a complete mess. And the transfers reflected that. All over the place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
I think they trusted Edu and he was a huge part of hiring Arteta. Between them, they did a superb job in turning things around. And it took a while.....
the table is strange. (although it's just maths)Quote:
Originally Posted by WES
one min chelsea were title contenders are now 17 points behind us.
and liverpool who seemed to lose every week are 4th,
Does make you realise how lucky we've been since Don Howe went.Quote:
Originally Posted by pjlincs
Since the summer of '86, we've had one year of Rioch, one and a half of Gub Ebening, and over 35 of Arsene, GG {him, not me} and MA.
I do like stability. I don't think I could handle it if we changed managers every 2-3 years like most clubs. I'd get all discombobulated.
I see Edu is on very thin ice at Forest, always seemed a slightly dangerous move with that lunatic owner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich
Never had a chance really, once it was allowed to became clear that he was practically wedded to a particular formation and style of play, regardless of results and available resources (praise his virtues so hard to the point that they becomes vices). You can do that after a year or two, once you've proved yourself, but not from the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
I mean; is he a coach or is he not. If he is then he should get on and COACH! If I'm a fat, gin-sodden club director, what the hell do I know or care about football tactics and formations and whatnot. That's why I hired a coach!
:-\ Is it terribly old-fashioned to believe results are more important than transfers, to a manager's prospects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
After all, Mikel was not "given" billions to spend on goal-shy superstar strikers; he had to EARN them. With Champions League qualifications and so on.
I don't think you can build a team without getting the transfers right. That doesn't mean spending billions or buying the very best. It means buying the right players, the ones you need. If you keep buying the wrong ones you are never going to get anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
Arteta could not have changed the club without us getting that part right.
I mean coaching a team and getting results BEFORE YOU START building it. What's the use in throwing money after a manager who can't (or hasn't yet shown he can) get results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Talking more about Amorim, I suppose. Manchester United already had a squad of players when he joined them.
I take your point. But I don't think that getting the transfers right is a decision so much as an ability, based on clear decision making and an agreed focus.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
Obviously you have to appoint the right coach as well, and one that fits with your transfer strategy. And then you have to spend well.
You have to get both right. My point with United is that the problem isnt the manager, it's the structure and the people making those decisions. No manager could resolve this.
Look at the 3-4-3 nonsense. If they don't want a coach who plays 3-4-3, why did they appoint one?
Idiocy. They made the same mistakes with the previous manager. He wanted a high pressing side that played out of the back. So they spent a fortune on a 30 year old midfielder and left him with a keeper who couldn't kick and Harry Maguire at centre back.
All over the shop :-)
A bit like AW but by that point he didn't have the players and/or finances to get the ones that fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
Not sure I agree with that. We had a decade of penury but then the taps were turned on.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSRB
Ozil - great buy. Pure AW player.
Alexis - 24 goals a season from the wing. To go with Ozil and Santi - that's sexyball triangle heaven right there.
Then GX - AW signed him to be the deep lying playmaker, the new MA. But realised he got turned too easily and you couldn't give him all that responsibility. We only saw him at his best in his final season when he played further forward. But he wasn't gonna replace Santi or Ozil.
Mustaphi - not fit to lace Triphop or Hinchappy's boots, let alone be mentioned in the same breath as [I won't mention them.]
Laca - we should have either paid more or waited 6 months and got Auba for the extra 5 mil. We then wouldn't have had to have sold Olly and would have an extra 50 mil to strengthen right wing, DM or the back.
In short, the first two big money signings were great. Then they started to go down hill.
Imagine this team [upside down]
Auba [with Olly as back up] - Alexis, Ozil, some 50 mil right winger with the money saved from Laca - Santi, a pwoppa DM with the GX money - a defence that still has the likes of Nacho and Kos but with the 35m Mustaphi money {plus the original Gabriel 17m] added to it - Sir Chesney.
That's a decent team without any more money being spent. {Yes, I'm assuming our 50m right winger is more Saka than Willian, our DM is more Gilberto than Coq/Song etc.}
But I'm suggesting we did, just, have the finances.
Though not with the leeway that allows the best young ball-playing Eng CH, Benny Blanc, to be signed for 50 mil and now be 2nd choice RB. To have a 50+m Saka back up. To have about 170m of strikers fighting for one starting place.
But it was the GX, Mustaphi, Laca signings that were the problem, not the lack of money.
Possibly controversial but Alexis- i never warmed to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
Good player in a bad side but the better you get the more his selfishness, ego and lack of game intelligence become a liability.
A 30 goal a season winger who interacted perfectly with Ozil and Santi, ripping teams apart? Yeah, a leetle beet controversial imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Can't believe you're criticising his game management ;)
If we'd had him, Auba, Ozil and a fit Santi we'd have just needed a DM and 2 CHs. Would have been fine with a Parlour on the right, tucking in, given that goal power elsewhere.
Game intelligence and game management are not the same thing, and i think you know that :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
Cazorla was a wonderful footballer.
Alexis comment not controversial at all for me. A talented player who played for himself and only himself. Wenger's problem in his latter years was that he had far too many of those, and he tolerated them far too often. See Aaron Ramsey as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
Can you imagine Alexis being asked by Arteta to focus on his defensive responsibilities for the good of the team?
:hehe:
Damn. You saw through my cunning deception.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter
But Santi is close to my fave ever player.
My ideal team could well be a goalie, 2 CHs, a pwoppa striker, and 7 Santi Cazorlas. Though tbf, he could probably play as the false 9 as well.
Do you remember that 3-0 win vs ManU where Alexis, Ozil and Santi just walked through the MU team and scored 3 in 30 mins?Quote:
Originally Posted by WES
That is not a selfish player. That is a player who only thinks it worth passing to people as good as him.
And he didn't need to track back as much cos Nacho was a pwoppa LB, not inverting into MF all the time.
In Leo's first full season, we were one win away from the title and he scored 17 from the LW, same as Limpar in '91 and Marcy in '98. And he doesn't track back half as well as Gabby.
Had Leo scored 24 like Alexis did, we'd have won the title. Fact.
This is not in any way a diss of Leo, or Anders or Overmars or Bobby P who only scored 15 from the left wing in title winning seasons.
I'm just saying that when you have Cech in goal, Mustaphi at CH, GX at DM, Iwobi at RW, Laca or Olly up top then Alexis scoring 20-odd a season is the least of your worries.
He was a goal-scoring winger, like Anders, Marcy and Bobby. And if they score enough, you win the title if the other 10 can play football and do their jobs.
If B could get 24 league goals this season, it wouldn't matter if Kai, Jeez and Vik only scored half a dozen more league goals between them.
Alexis was selfish, Ozil did show enough passion with his body lingo. FFS, those weren't our problems. Nor was it even a certain Welsher MF who won us 2 cup finals and at his best scored 16 in a season without taking pens or FKs.
Our problems were the fact that I'm a better CH than Mustafi, a better goalie than Cech and for all his skill and commitment, the fact that an oil tanker has a smaller turning circle than GX meant he didn't work as a lone DM, lacking a 2nd pivot or an inverting FB.
The only class in the latter years were Alexis and Ozil with Santi and then with Laca {AOL.}
Wasn't there some rap song decades ago that went I've a thousand and one problems but Alexis ain't one?
PS - "Can you imagine Alexis being asked by Arteta to focus on his defensive responsibilities for the good of the team?"
Different team, different era.
You might as well ask whether Big Paddy Jennings would be good at passing the ball around in his own box.
Jennings was actually quite good with the ball at his feet; notably, unfashionably so, ahead of his time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
The trouble wasn't so much the money we had but the money our rivals had. That side was certainly worth a title, in different times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
I take your point, but I do think the eras are not quite as separate as you think. Wenger hadn't moved on much but a lot of football had and was already moving to the point where luxury players were a luxury that few teams could afford. These days it is just Mo Salah.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult
As long as you wanted him to wallop it the length of the pitch. He was certainly good at that :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
I agree with the point about our rivals having more money than us. If we bought a Mustaphi, we'd be stuck with him. But our opponents could just not play him and write the loss off, a bit like we later did with P?p?.Quote:
Originally Posted by redgunamo
But that side had too many holes to be a title-winning team. We needed a DM and a pwoppa CH pairing. All the titles in my lifetime have had a world class CH pairing, and normally 3 CHs. {O'Leary, Bould, TA, MK, Sol, Kolo.} I don't think it a coincidence that we've challenged for the title for 3, now hopefully 4 season since we've had Big Willy and Gabby at the back. And now we have Triphop, Hinchappy, and also Timber and Ricky C as options.
We could have our 4 first choice CHs out and still have a backline of BW, JT, Ricky C, MLS which isn't that shabby, given JT and Ricky C play CH for their national sides. BW's looked as good as ever when he's played this season - still think he's a better crosser than JT. And MLS dealt with Rodrygo and Mbapp? home and away.
MA's basing the challenge on defensive solidity like GG did. And for the Invincibles, we'd won two titles with Paddy V as DM, but then got Gilby to play there with PV4 moving further forward like Dec has.
The team with all the creative genius didn't have the defensive foundations.