C'mon out MONTY!!! We want to talk football with you

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Originally Posted by Monty92

There's no semantics. Peter claims Spurs have challenged the hegemony for the past two years yet also claims we haven't done so for a decade, yet we finished above spurs two years ago!

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I would say neither have challenged the hegemony, since it remains firmly in place. For this to work, you would have to define 'challenge' as meaning 'failing repeatedly'.

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Originally Posted by World's End Stella

The stunningly obvious point is that they came close to winning the league, we did not and have not for many years, that's the point.

Good lord.

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I think you exaggerate to suit your agenda. Last season they were significant outsiders for the title throughout the final months and weeks of the season. The season before, WE FINISHED ABOVE THEM!!!!!!!!1111111111111!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Peter

Perhaps in 2007/8. Even that was nowhere near as close as Liverpool's a few years ago.

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And two years ago? If Spurs challenged (as you claim), then so did we.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

They lost their last game. So according to you the difference between challenging the hegemony and floundering aimlessly is one end of season game?

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Errr, no. THat is according to you. I said Spurs had 'challenged' the hegemony over the last two years by challenging for the title. It was you who brought up the fact that we scraped level on points with them on the last day of the season two years ago. I dont really see how that is relevant.

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Originally Posted by Monty92

And two years ago? If Spurs challenged (as you claim), then so did we.

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Ok, so you are saying, presumably, that neither us nor Spurs challenged for the title? Surely you are not claiming we did???

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Originally Posted by Monty92

They lost their last game. So according to you the difference between challenging the hegemony and floundering aimlessly is one end of season game?

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United won their treble by fluking a late win against a better side and because Dennis missed a penalty. Yet that is their crowning 'dynastic' achievement. Long-term outcomes hinge on precisely such moments.

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Originally Posted by Burney

I would say neither have challenged the hegemony, since it remains firmly in place. For this to work, you would have to define 'challenge' as meaning 'failing repeatedly'.

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Agree entirely :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Burney

I would say neither have challenged the hegemony, since it remains firmly in place. For this to work, you would have to define 'challenge' as meaning 'failing repeatedly'.

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Its Monty's phrase. I simply said that if Spurs had failed to challenge it I would still happily accept what they have achieved as a wooden spoon. I dont really feel the need to challenge the hegemony. I just want to challenge for the league.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Ok, so you are saying, presumably, that neither us nor Spurs challenged for the title? Surely you are not claiming we did???

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Correct, I don't think either of us have meaningfully challenged. For the past two seasons it's true that Spurs have kept their hopes alive until the last few weeks, but on both occasions they have remained significant outsiders until it was mathematically over.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Errr, no. THat is according to you. I said Spurs had 'challenged' the hegemony over the last two years by challenging for the title. It was you who brought up the fact that we scraped level on points with them on the last day of the season two years ago. I dont really see how that is relevant.

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Anyway, aren't we part of the hegemony :-(