What the **** is Boris thinking?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WES

You don't think that Muslims who were born in this country are anymore integrated than their parents who came here from Pakistan or Bangladesh, as examples? Seriously?

Of course they are. And the people in our Muslim communities who don't want to integrate are in the minority and almost overwhelmingly immigrants. You're taking a small segment of these communities and elevating their views as though it was some sort of standard for all Muslims.

It isn't.

---

Where's the integration coming from? The prevailing belief in multi-culturalism is the opposite of integration. It seeks to emphasise and 'celebrate' the difference, rather than the similarity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sir C

Drive down Whitechapel Road on a Friday afternoon and note all the cheerful young muslim gentlemen, all smiling and happy to be integrated into the local community...

---

So if you drove down Whitechapel Road and met some members of the Muslim community there who held conservative Muslim views that included no desire to integrate into a secular, democratic society you would therefore conclude that all Muslims in Britain felt that way?

:rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WES

So if you drove down Whitechapel Road and met some members of the Muslim community there who held conservative Muslim views that included no desire to integrate into a secular, democratic society you would therefore conclude that all Muslims in Britain felt that way?

:rolleyes:

---

Well, no one would suggest that all Canadians are dull moosefúckers, would they? There are always exceptions, But one can generalise about Canadians, can't one?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WES

So if you drove down Whitechapel Road and met some members of the Muslim community there who held conservative Muslim views that included no desire to integrate into a secular, democratic society you would therefore conclude that all Muslims in Britain felt that way?

:rolleyes:

---

No. I'm suggesting that you are mistaking the majority for the minority.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ash

Where's the integration coming from? The prevailing belief in multi-culturalism is the opposite of integration. It seeks to emphasise and 'celebrate' the difference, rather than the similarity.

---

No, I don't agree about multi-culturalism. You can celebrate many cultures while at the same defining mutually consistent beliefs and values that unite you. Canada is the poster child for this.

The overwhelming majority of Muslims in the UK practice a form of Islam which is not at odds with a secular, democratic society. Religion is like that, mostly, the extremists of any particular form of religion are always in the small minority.

By all means we should discuss the issues within our Muslim communities including how best to continue and accelerate the integration. But let's not try and demonise the entire community the way Burney has. That way madness lies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WES

The overwhelming majority of Muslims in the UK practice a form of Islam which is not at odds with a secular, democratic society. Religion is like that, mostly, the extremists of any particular form of religion are always in the small minority.

---

Let's hope so. I doubt either of us have the numbers.

Out of interest, are there many niqab-wearers in your Surrey village?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ash

Let's hope so. I doubt either of us have the numbers.

Out of interest, are there many niqab-wearers in your Surrey village?

---

No, none at all. Although Guildford has no shortage of Muslim women with some form of head covering.

Why is that relevant, exactly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burney

Muslims marry outside their communities less than any other ethnic group in this country

---

With the exception of Orthodox Jews.

According to the religion.... Muslim women are not allowed to marry non-Muslim men while Muslim men are allowed to marry non-Muslim women, providing those women convert to Islam. It is assimilation at its clearest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WES

No, none at all. Although Guildford has no shortage of Muslim women with some form of head covering.

Why is that relevant, exactly?

---

It might affect our perception in some way. Maybe not. I see dozens of women clad in this garb every day and I find it a bit disconcerting. I've no idea whether they want to look like blobs, or letter boxes, but it seems dehumanising. If it's their choice then fine, but I don't have to like it any more than they have to like western 'slùts' walking around with exposed skin.

When I lived in Balsall Heath in Birmingham, with a high population of muslims, in the late eighties / early nineties there were no niqabs, as I recall. Perhaps not even many hijabs. In fact my only recollection of conservative religious expression was when gangs of men with clubs went around beating up prostitutes. I don't think there has been a process of integration, other than with basically secular lots like yer Turks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ash

It might affect our perception in some way. Maybe not. I see dozens of women clad in this garb every day and I find it a bit disconcerting. I've no idea whether they want to look like blobs, or letter boxes, but it seems dehumanising. If it's their choice then fine, but I don't have to like it any more than they have to like western 'slùts' walking around with exposed skin.

When I lived in Balsall Heath in Birmingham, with a high population of muslims, in the late eighties / early nineties there were no niqabs, as I recall. Perhaps not even many hijabs. In fact my only recollection of conservative religious expression was when gangs of men with clubs went around beating up prostitutes. I don't think there has been a process of integration, other than with basically secular lots like yer Turks.

---

Good timez with Father Murphy and the other altar boys, a. :cloud9: