Nearly had to kick my radio in listening to the Today programme this morning

[Herbette Chapman - aged 15]

Bullshït. He was a torturer and a mass murderer who only came to the table because he knew the IRA was beaten and the Peace Process was the best deal they were going to get.
Plenty of people lived through the same period in the same place and never murdered anyone. Fück him. I hope his death was as painful as that of his victims.

In what sense were the IRA beaten?

[Sir C]

In what sense were the IRA beaten?

SAS and 14 Int persuaded them they couldn't win militarily

[Herbette Chapman - aged 15]

SAS and 14 Int persuaded them they couldn't win militarily

Winning militarily was never their objective C - they were a terrorist organisation. I'd say they were reasonably successful at that.

Who is this 14 Int by the way? /

[Burney]

Winning militarily was never their objective C - they were a terrorist organisation. I'd say they were reasonably successful at that.

Who is this 14 Int by the way? /

Incorrect. They did want to win militarily. They failed utterly in that objective. Effective peace terms along the lines of the Good Friday Agreement were on the table in 1974, but the IRA and Protestant paramilitaries kiboshed them. The IRA then went on to pursue war for nearly a quarter of a century more because they didn't want civil rights, equality and peace, they wanted the Brits out and they believed they could achieve that by violence. They couldn't. Ergo, they lost.

[Herbette Chapman - aged 15]

The IRA then went on to pursue war for nearly a quarter of a century more because they didn't want civil rights, equality and peace, they wanted the Brits out and they believed they could achieve that by violence. They couldn't. Ergo, they lost.

British troops left NI 10 years ago so I would say the Brits are out. The leading figures of the enemy were then invited to the table and afforded positions of power in the democratic apparatus which hardly equates to military defeat. Be rather like offering Heydrich a seat in the The Cabinet.

[Burney]

British troops left NI 10 years ago so I would say the Brits are out. The leading figures of the enemy were then invited to the table and afforded positions of power in the democratic apparatus which hardly equates to military defeat. Be rather like offering Heydrich a seat in the The Cabinet.

You're conflating 'Brits Out' with 'Troops Out'. The troops were only there because of IRA violence. Once that stopped, there was no need for them. They left because they'd won, not because they IRA had beaten them.
They were offered seats at the table in a power-sharing government as a devolved part of the United Kingdom in return for abandoning the armed struggle, handing over their weapons and operating purely by democratic means. That was a million miles from their stated war aims of fighting the British until they gave up and left Northern Ireland to unite with the Republic and, as I said, was basically the same deal that had been on the table in 1974.

Let me ask you something: in a war, which side usually has to hand over their arms? Is it the winners?

[SWv2]

You're conflating 'Brits Out' with 'Troops Out'. The troops were only there because of IRA violence. Once that stopped, there was no need for them. They left because they'd won, not because they IRA had beaten them.
They were offered seats at the table in a power-sharing government as a devolved part of the United Kingdom in return for abandoning the armed struggle, handing over their weapons and operating purely by democratic means. That was a million miles from their stated war aims of fighting the British until they gave up and left Northern Ireland to unite with the Republic and, as I said, was basically the same deal that had been on the table in 1974.

Let me ask you something: in a war, which side usually has to hand over their arms? Is it the winners?

I actually don't think any party can really claim to have won.

[Ash]

The troops were only there because of IRA violence.

ISTR they went in originally because of protestant violence against catholics.

[redgunamo]

Incorrect. They did want to win militarily. .. They couldn't. Ergo, they lost.

Yes, military forces invariably do, but there's always wider issues at stake.

[Sir C]

Winning militarily was never their objective C - they were a terrorist organisation. I'd say they were reasonably successful at that.

Who is this 14 Int by the way? /

The Det. Special forces surveillance detachment. I don't know if they continued operations after Ireland.