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Thread: Now I know I'm slightly obsessed by The Guardian, but in this piece, the author

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    Yes. Gore Vidal (a chap for whom I've always had a huge soft spot despite him being a bit of a lefty) used to say that 'homosexual' and 'heterosexual' were descriptions of acts, not of people. He had a point, I think. It seems rather a shame that we've lost sight of that in our rush to categorise in order to appease the gods of identity politics.
    Perhaps the Civil Rights movement in America showed everyone else the way?
    "Plenty of strikers can score goals," he said, gesturing to the famous old stands casting shadows around us.

    "But a lot have found it difficult wearing the number 9 shirt for The Arsenal."

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by redgunamo View Post
    Perhaps the Civil Rights movement in America showed everyone else the way?
    The trouble is that, in order to right actual wrongs on behalf of certain groups, you invariably end up ring-fencing those groups within rigid definitions. Thus, a married father of four who likes a spot of cock now and again has to be categorised as gay or bisexual. This is ultimately an unhelpful way of looking at things.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Correct

    Courtesy of google....
    Yes, of course. And assuming you know Berni's profession, I expect that being a google master would be one of the main requirements for success.

    Which explains how, at times, he can appear so knowledgeable.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney View Post
    The trouble is that, in order to right actual wrongs on behalf of certain groups, you invariably end up ring-fencing those groups within rigid definitions. Thus, a married father of four who likes a spot of cock now and again has to be categorised as gay or bisexual. This is ultimately an unhelpful way of looking at things.
    How very dare you

    Anyway, I have six children.
    "Plenty of strikers can score goals," he said, gesturing to the famous old stands casting shadows around us.

    "But a lot have found it difficult wearing the number 9 shirt for The Arsenal."

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda View Post
    "One suspects, of course, that not only did Trump say it, but that he himself would happily preside over televised hangings of gay people if he thought it would get him good ratings."

    If you read the whole sentence, it's actually quite different to how you've tried to portray it there
    Here's my understanding:

    She doesn't assert, as Burney said, she suspects.

    What does she suspect? First of all she suspects that Trump did say that Pence "wanted to hang them all". This is her opinion (not a fact). If Trump did say that then all it says is that Trump is more liberal about gays than Pence.

    Secondly (removing the sub-clause) she "suspects ... that he (Trump) would happily preside over televised hangings of gay people if he thought it would get him good ratings."

    So she's gone from using a rumour about Trump either joking or believing that Pence is highly illiberal about gays to suspecting that Trump is basically ok with hanging gay people.

    That's only a notch or two down from assert, isn't it?

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Here's my understanding:

    She doesn't assert, as Burney said, she suspects.

    What does she suspect? First of all she suspects that Trump did say that Pence "wanted to hang them all". This is her opinion (not a fact). If Trump did say that then all it says is that Trump is more liberal about gays than Pence.

    Secondly (removing the sub-clause) she "suspects ... that he (Trump) would happily preside over televised hangings of gay people if he thought it would get him good ratings."

    So she's gone from using a rumour about Trump either joking or believing that Pence is highly illiberal about gays to suspecting that Trump is basically ok with hanging gay people.

    That's only a notch or two down from assert, isn't it?
    I assumed the point LA was making was that the author wasnt necessarily saying that Trump wants to hang gays- she is suggesting he would be willing to do pretty much anything for the sake of good ratings.

    This doesnt really add up, particularly as she says it immediately after suggesting he did say that his VP wants to hang them.

    My judgement- she is saying he wants to hang gays. Case closed.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by redgunamo View Post
    I'm not sure. Can there be such a thing as a pro-establishment pressure, or protest, group?
    Of course there can. See also: the term counter-revolutionary.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Here's my understanding:

    She doesn't assert, as Burney said, she suspects.

    What does she suspect? First of all she suspects that Trump did say that Pence "wanted to hang them all". This is her opinion (not a fact). If Trump did say that then all it says is that Trump is more liberal about gays than Pence.

    Secondly (removing the sub-clause) she "suspects ... that he (Trump) would happily preside over televised hangings of gay people if he thought it would get him good ratings."

    So she's gone from using a rumour about Trump either joking or believing that Pence is highly illiberal about gays to suspecting that Trump is basically ok with hanging gay people.

    That's only a notch or two down from assert, isn't it?
    I think what she actually says he will do anything to get ratings - hardly a massive slight on a man so obsessed with his own image - which is why removing that phrase completely changes the meaning

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    I assumed the point LA was making was that the author wasnt necessarily saying that Trump wants to hang gays- she is suggesting he would be willing to do pretty much anything for the sake of good ratings.

    This doesnt really add up, particularly as she says it immediately after suggesting he did say that his VP wants to hang them.

    My judgement- she is saying he wants to hang gays. Case closed.
    How does it not add up as it really what she says. (I admit it is clumsily written nonsense on the whole)

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda View Post
    I think what she actually says he will do anything to get ratings - hardly a massive slight on a man so obsessed with his own image - which is why removing that phrase completely changes the meaning
    Right. So you don't think that saying that the President of the United States "would happily preside over televised hangings of gay people" (for whatever bullshīt reason) is a massive slight? Only I'd say it's a bit more than a slight. I'd say it's a gross and tasteless calumny with no substance whatsoever and if you're defending it, you need to take a long, hard look at yourself.

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