So a left wing politician dares to point out that

[Peter]

But you won't admit it's a Muslim problem

Its committed by asian men, most of whom are Muslims. It strongly suggests that there is some issue with how members of these communities view young white women (as they are always the target).

Without question, it is an issues for these communities to address. Refusing to do so, refusing to even accept that there is an issue, is bull****. Its also a tremendously inhumane response to see this as a race issue and ignore the multitude of victims.

The whole situation becomes rather difficult when you refer to it as a 'muslim problem' or refer to the perpetrators as Pakistani when plenty of them aren't. It is also rather difficult to refer to a single community which doesn't actually exist.

I have no problem saying that the members of these gangs seem to be almost exclusively muslim. I know you want to go back down the path of blaming the entire religion for it. Would I help if I told you that was exactly the wrong thing to do if you are actually interested in stopping it happening?

[Sir C]

Its committed by asian men, most of whom are Muslims. It strongly suggests that there is some issue with how members of these communities view young white women (as they are always the target).

Without question, it is an issues for these communities to address. Refusing to do so, refusing to even accept that there is an issue, is bull****. Its also a tremendously inhumane response to see this as a race issue and ignore the multitude of victims.

The whole situation becomes rather difficult when you refer to it as a 'muslim problem' or refer to the perpetrators as Pakistani when plenty of them aren't. It is also rather difficult to refer to a single community which doesn't actually exist.

I have no problem saying that the members of these gangs seem to be almost exclusively muslim. I know you want to go back down the path of blaming the entire religion for it. Would I help if I told you that was exactly the wrong thing to do if you are actually interested in stopping it happening?

A Muslim mayor speaks:

DHawuq.jpg

[Monty92]

Its committed by asian men, most of whom are Muslims. It strongly suggests that there is some issue with how members of these communities view young white women (as they are always the target).

Without question, it is an issues for these communities to address. Refusing to do so, refusing to even accept that there is an issue, is bull****. Its also a tremendously inhumane response to see this as a race issue and ignore the multitude of victims.

The whole situation becomes rather difficult when you refer to it as a 'muslim problem' or refer to the perpetrators as Pakistani when plenty of them aren't. It is also rather difficult to refer to a single community which doesn't actually exist.

I have no problem saying that the members of these gangs seem to be almost exclusively muslim. I know you want to go back down the path of blaming the entire religion for it. Would I help if I told you that was exactly the wrong thing to do if you are actually interested in stopping it happening?

You say "some issue with how members of these communities view young white women" as if we don't know what that issue is. As if it's a big fúcking mystery that we just can't unravel, however hard we look

But it isn't. The answer is in the The Holy Quran and its associated scriptures. Honestly, read it. It's all there, and leaves absolutely no ambiguity about why those who believe the book is the immutable word of God may feel justified in raping underage white girls.

So yes, in this sense, I do blame the whole religion. How can you not?

[Peter]

You say "some issue with how members of these communities view young white women" as if we don't know what that issue is. As if it's a big fúcking mystery that we just can't unravel, however hard we look

But it isn't. The answer is in the The Holy Quran and its associated scriptures. Honestly, read it. It's all there, and leaves absolutely no ambiguity about why those who believe the book is the immutable word of God may feel justified in raping underage white girls.

So yes, in this sense, I do blame the whole religion. How can you not?

The problem with blaming the whole religion is that it implies that you blame everyone in it. Do you?

[Monty92]

The problem with blaming the whole religion is that it implies that you blame everyone in it. Do you?

Of course not and why on earth does it imply that? Islam is a set of ideas, nothing more. Bad ideas provoke people into doing bad things. But people who believe in bad ideas but don't do bad things cannot be held responsible for those who do. They should, of course, be ridiculed out of believing bad ideas and sharply reminded where bad ideas can lead, but that is where the opprobrium should end.

[Peter]

Of course not and why on earth does it imply that? Islam is a set of ideas, nothing more. Bad ideas provoke people into doing bad things. But people who believe in bad ideas but don't do bad things cannot be held responsible for those who do. They should, of course, be ridiculed out of believing bad ideas, but that is where it should end.

Islam effectively tells muslim men that it is ok to rape young white girls. The religion itself is therefore to blame when muslim men do this.

Thus every muslim man is a potential raper of young white girls. Indeed, the more devout his faith, the more likely he is to do it. Or something similar.

I am not accusing you of this, by the way. But can you see how someone might follow that thread? And why it is dangerous?

[Monty92]

Islam effectively tells muslim men that it is ok to rape young white girls. The religion itself is therefore to blame when muslim men do this.

Thus every muslim man is a potential raper of young white girls. Indeed, the more devout his faith, the more likely he is to do it. Or something similar.

I am not accusing you of this, by the way. But can you see how someone might follow that thread? And why it is dangerous?

But no-one thinks that every Christian or Jew is a potential killer of homos, even though their respective holy books advocates them being so. That is because the Christian and Hebrew holy books have been neutered after we decided as a civilisation that they were no longer compatible with how we want to live and co-exist.

Our job is to do the exact same with Islam. That begins with naming and being honest about the problem. There follows a very long and painful - but necessary - journey. But you just won't come along.

[Peter]

But no-one thinks that every Christian or Jew is a potential killer of homos, even though their respective holy books advocates them being so. That is because the Christian and Hebrew holy books have been neutered after we decided as a civilisation that they were no longer compatible with how we want to live and co-exist.

Our job is to do the exact same with Islam. That begins with naming and being honest about the problem. There follows a very long and painful - but necessary - journey. But you just won't come along.

Hmmm... well, of course, the holy books themselves have not been amended in any way. This neutering you speak is of is our modern understanding of the literal passages and our shared belief in how they should shape our behaviour.

In other words, our interpretation of the original scripture. This is the very point I was making to you last week and that you described as a red herring. That a religion can be separated from its original incarnation. And by definition, from any ghastly future *******isation of it.

So when the KKK lynch black people the world is able to separate this from global christianity, even though the clowns are claiming to do it in the name of Christ.

The situation with Islam is the same but for some reason you refuse to accept that it has already happened. You still wish to blame Islam for everything done in its name and resist any argument regarding interpretation as a red herring or a straw man.

I am happy to sit here and agree that some muslin men in britain clearly have an appalling attitude to young, white women and a very small minority do horrific things to them. I would also agree that we are reluctant to admit this because of fears about being labelled racist. I would also agree that the communities these men stem from should be concerned by this and should tackle it in some way.

What I refuse to do is partially absolve these ****s by believing that their religion told them to do it. **** that.

[Burney]

The problem with blaming the whole religion is that it implies that you blame everyone in it. Do you?

This is the problem right here. We have conflated race and religion to such an extent in the case of Islam that we have forgotten that they aren't even close to being the same thing. Islam is a religion - a set of ideas upon which people are expected to base their lives and - like any set of ideas - it is a valid target for criticism.

I'm a Catholic (albeit nominally) and, if you ask me whether Catholicism bears some responsibility for the many crimes of priests against children I would say that it absolutely does. Nothing controversial about that whatsoever.

However, if you suggest that Islam as a creed may bear some responsibility for the actions and attitudes we see in Rotherham, Rochdale and Newcastle, it won't be long before you're shouted down as racist. Why the difference?

[Peter]

This is the problem right here. We have conflated race and religion to such an extent in the case of Islam that we have forgotten that they aren't even close to being the same thing. Islam is a religion - a set of ideas upon which people are expected to base their lives and - like any set of ideas - it is a valid target for criticism.

I'm a Catholic (albeit nominally) and, if you ask me whether Catholicism bears some responsibility for the many crimes of priests against children I would say that it absolutely does. Nothing controversial about that whatsoever.

However, if you suggest that Islam as a creed may bear some responsibility for the actions and attitudes we see in Rotherham, Rochdale and Newcastle, it won't be long before you're shouted down as racist. Why the difference?

You know why. Not that that makes it ok.