Now THIS is the definition of true solidarity with Muslim women

[Monty92]

Hmm. I'm a bit troubled by that one. Presumably she would have known that before meeting such a mufti she would be expected to do the medieval thing? So why go? (For the publicity, obviously)

It's a matter of poiliteness, isn't it? When in Rome and all that?

Yeah perhaps it was a publicity stunt. Although she does claim in the video that she met with the highest sunni authority in the world and wasn't required to cover up.

As to your point about politeness. Sure, perhaps she should have allowed the Allan fella to rape her too? That would have been the culturally sensitive thing to do.

[Sir C]

Yeah perhaps it was a publicity stunt. Although she does claim in the video that she met with the highest sunni authority in the world and wasn't required to cover up.

As to your point about politeness. Sure, perhaps she should have allowed the Allan fella to rape her too? That would have been the culturally sensitive thing to do.

Yes, to a degree, I think she should have. The point is that when you choose to visit someone's country, you play by their rules, don't you? If you don't like their rules, don't go. If you really don't like their rules, you have the option of campaigning for regime change and so on, but going, and then refusing to play by your host's rules, is rude.

[World's End Stella]

Yes, to a degree, I think she should have. The point is that when you choose to visit someone's country, you play by their rules, don't you? If you don't like their rules, don't go. If you really don't like their rules, you have the option of campaigning for regime change and so on, but going, and then refusing to play by your host's rules, is rude.

It's also political opportunism, which is I think what really happened here.

She's fully within her rights to not wear the headscarf, of course. But let's not portray this as a shining example to Muslim women around the world, that's just naïve.

[Monty92]

It's also political opportunism, which is I think what really happened here.

She's fully within her rights to not wear the headscarf, of course. But let's not portray this as a shining example to Muslim women around the world, that's just naïve.

Oh it was brazenly opportunistic (assuming it was planned), but could it not also be seen as setting an example as well?

[World's End Stella]

Oh it was brazenly opportunistic (assuming it was planned), but could it not also be seen as setting an example as well?

Not really, there are rather a lot of Muslim women who don't cover up in any way, Monty. I would expect that in the UK the majority don't although I might be wrong.

If a Muslim woman in the UK is uncomfortable with covering up I think she has plenty of examples she could follow to not do so, I doubt she will know or care what Marie Le Pen does. In more conservative Islamic countries where virtually all women cover up I doubt many see it as oppressive and if they did they would look for leadership within their own community, not from a right wing, Christian politician in France.

[Monty92]

Not really, there are rather a lot of Muslim women who don't cover up in any way, Monty. I would expect that in the UK the majority don't although I might be wrong.

If a Muslim woman in the UK is uncomfortable with covering up I think she has plenty of examples she could follow to not do so, I doubt she will know or care what Marie Le Pen does. In more conservative Islamic countries where virtually all women cover up I doubt many see it as oppressive and if they did they would look for leadership within their own community, not from a right wing, Christian politician in France.

But we live in a political era in which such barbaric practices are actively endorsed and promoted by liberal democracies. Do you not consider it important that there are high-profile politicians and public figures helping to kick back against this trend?

Of course, there will be some Muslims who consider it further proof that the West hates muslims. But I do not believe the answer is to indulge this fantasy.

[Pokster]

Yes, to a degree, I think she should have. The point is that when you choose to visit someone's country, you play by their rules, don't you? If you don't like their rules, don't go. If you really don't like their rules, you have the option of campaigning for regime change and so on, but going, and then refusing to play by your host's rules, is rude.

It's like complaining that you are required to wear a suit when visiting the palace.... or in Monty's case, no trainers in Stringfellows

[Monty92]

Yes, to a degree, I think she should have. The point is that when you choose to visit someone's country, you play by their rules, don't you? If you don't like their rules, don't go. If you really don't like their rules, you have the option of campaigning for regime change and so on, but going, and then refusing to play by your host's rules, is rude.

Oh, ok, yes, it was rude. Very rude. Most impertinent of her.

But as you well know, there are bigger issues at stake here than social airs and graces.

[Burney]

Yes, to a degree, I think she should have. The point is that when you choose to visit someone's country, you play by their rules, don't you? If you don't like their rules, don't go. If you really don't like their rules, you have the option of campaigning for regime change and so on, but going, and then refusing to play by your host's rules, is rude.

Well I think the larger point is that we don't actually have to keep kowtowing. The cultural cringe of just accepting the barbarism of other nations as though it's OK has become a given and it really oughtn't to be.

[Sir C]

Well I think the larger point is that we don't actually have to keep kowtowing. The cultural cringe of just accepting the barbarism of other nations as though it's OK has become a given and it really oughtn't to be.

But I haven't suggested kowtowing in any way. I'm suggesting that if you don't like a country's customs and culture and/or are prepared to abide by same, don't go. As a politician you have a further option: gather your military strength and change the regime, cultures and customs to something more suitable to the 21st century