Any c*nt that tells me I "would have taken that before the game"

[Burney]

Oh, yes, he gaves the FA cups. Very nice too. What did we have to win? 7 or 8 games? An achievement nonetheless.

That 2nd place? Every team in the league was fúck awful that season, including Lester and we were gifted second by that marvellous, over-achieing sp*rs team.

And yet that is what we won and where we finished nonetheless.

My point is that your narrative of inexorable, season-on-season decline under Wenger simply isn't borne out by the facts.

[WES]

And yet that is what we won and where we finished nonetheless.

My point is that your narrative of inexorable, season-on-season decline under Wenger simply isn't borne out by the facts.

You mean we weren't winning the league during the 90s and early 00s, then challenging for the title in the late 00s, then barely making it into the top 4 followed by a 5th place finish in his second last season and then a 6th place finish in his last season?

Yeah, no sense of decline there.

[Burney]

You mean we weren't winning the league during the 90s and early 00s, then challenging for the title in the late 00s, then barely making it into the top 4 followed by a 5th place finish in his second last season and then a 6th place finish in his last season?

Yeah, no sense of decline there.

Well that would be a valid point if you wilfully ignored the utterly seismic changes to football's funding models in that period and the fact that Arsenal Football Club long resisted the types of takeover that have enormously benefitted rival clubs.

But yeah, that's AW's fault, right?

[WES]

Well that would be a valid point if you wilfully ignored the utterly seismic changes to football's funding models in that period and the fact that Arsenal Football Club long resisted the types of takeover that have enormously benefitted rival clubs.

But yeah, that's AW's fault, right?

That would be a valid point if we hadn't been consistently finishing behind clubs with less money than us (Spurs, Liverpool) and Leicester hadn't won the league. The money excuse can only be taken so far when you're finishing 6th and the same distance to relegation as you are to the winners.

[Burney]

That would be a valid point if we hadn't been consistently finishing behind clubs with less money than us (Spurs, Liverpool) and Leicester hadn't won the league. The money excuse can only be taken so far when you're finishing 6th and the same distance to relegation as you are to the winners.

:sigh: But they didn't have 'less' money than us in real terms. In terms of available cash to spend (not to be confused with our cash reserves) pretty much all our rivals had more ready cash than us.

In seven of the ten years between 2007 and 2016, we'd have made a net loss without player sales. We repeatedly had to sell our best players just to stay in the black. So the idea that we had loads of money in that period is facile.

[Pokster]

:sigh: But they didn't have 'less' money than us in real terms. In terms of available cash to spend (not to be confused with our cash reserves) pretty much all our rivals had more ready cash than us.

In seven of the ten years between 2007 and 2016, we'd have made a net loss without player sales. We repeatedly had to sell our best players just to stay in the black. So the idea that we had loads of money in that period is facile.

How many of our rivals made a profit in that time? So saying we had less cash isn't altogether true, rivals might well have spent more than us and have gone into debt in that time nad have since recouped that money with better commercail deals or selling players at a later stage

[Burney]

How many of our rivals made a profit in that time? So saying we had less cash isn't altogether true, rivals might well have spent more than us and have gone into debt in that time nad have since recouped that money with better commercail deals or selling players at a later stage

So you think that, in addition to the debt we were already paying off on our stadium, we should have increased our indebtedness when we were qualifying for the CL every year in order to keep the fans happy?

I really hope you don't ever run a business.

Most of our rivals at the time were bankrolled. We lived or died by our P&L sheet.

[IUFG]

:sigh: But they didn't have 'less' money than us in real terms. In terms of available cash to spend (not to be confused with our cash reserves) pretty much all our rivals had more ready cash than us.

In seven of the ten years between 2007 and 2016, we'd have made a net loss without player sales. We repeatedly had to sell our best players just to stay in the black. So the idea that we had loads of money in that period is facile.

Look, B. I'm not a Wenger hater. AW just needed replacing.

We are a 'big club' with big wage bills, big ticket prices and big expectations amongst the fan base. The latter proably driven by youngsters who grew up on a Wenger era football-diet.

There was a decline (not withstanding the FA cups) in the premier league, the exception being the season when Spurs let us finish 2nd in a race we hadn't even entered. Whichever way you look at it, whether it be points total, points gap to champions, or whatever, we were / are in decline. That decline might actually be relative. i.e some others have simply got 'better'.

But to stand still and do what you have always done and expect something different is the definition of .... etc

The managers, UE and AW are simply different. We gave Wenger time and we should do the same for Emery. I doubt he'll get 10 years of failing to challenge for the league...

[Pokster]

Look, B. I'm not a Wenger hater. AW just needed replacing.

We are a 'big club' with big wage bills, big ticket prices and big expectations amongst the fan base. The latter proably driven by youngsters who grew up on a Wenger era football-diet.

There was a decline (not withstanding the FA cups) in the premier league, the exception being the season when Spurs let us finish 2nd in a race we hadn't even entered. Whichever way you look at it, whether it be points total, points gap to champions, or whatever, we were / are in decline. That decline might actually be relative. i.e some others have simply got 'better'.

But to stand still and do what you have always done and expect something different is the definition of .... etc

The managers, UE and AW are simply different. We gave Wenger time and we should do the same for Emery. I doubt he'll get 10 years of failing to challenge for the league...

I agree with that, hard to judge him after 1 season when the vast majority of the players he might still want to change, give him another couple of seasons and see if there is an upward curve to our form, league position and also transfer policy (which had certainly declined)

[redgunamo]

B is merely, desperately, trying to cover up for the fact the he himself was one of the original WOBers. True story.

Look, B. I'm not a Wenger hater. AW just needed replacing.

We are a 'big club' with big wage bills, big ticket prices and big expectations amongst the fan base. The latter proably driven by youngsters who grew up on a Wenger era football-diet.

There was a decline (not withstanding the FA cups) in the premier league, the exception being the season when Spurs let us finish 2nd in a race we hadn't even entered. Whichever way you look at it, whether it be points total, points gap to champions, or whatever, we were / are in decline. That decline might actually be relative. i.e some others have simply got 'better'.

But to stand still and do what you have always done and expect something different is the definition of .... etc

The managers, UE and AW are simply different. We gave Wenger time and we should do the same for Emery. I doubt he'll get 10 years of failing to challenge for the league...