Now I had exactly zero interest in the Royal Wedding. I am quite happy for others

[Burney]

The Times went on about how he had taken the wedding by storm, he was the highlight of the service etc etc etc

I then watched his sermon only to see endless smirks and grins from the audience and in some cases outright embarrassment. Liz and Phil looked aghast.

Soft bigotry of low expectations, innit. If a white priest had come out with that drivel, he’d have been castigated. Essentially, what yer progressives are saying they is ‘Yeah, but they love all that, dont they, the darkies. Bless’.

[WES]

Soft bigotry of low expectations, innit. If a white priest had come out with that drivel, he’d have been castigated. Essentially, what yer progressives are saying they is ‘Yeah, but they love all that, dont they, the darkies. Bless’.

Yes, there's that angle as well as the 'had they come out and said it was sh1t and cringe worthy they would have been accused of racism' angle.

Not to mention the desire to confirm - yet again - that they couldn't possibly be racist by telling everyone how wonderful it was.

[Monty92]

Yes, there's that angle as well as the 'had they come out and said it was sh1t and cringe worthy they would have been accused of racism' angle.

Not to mention the desire to confirm - yet again - that they couldn't possibly be racist by telling everyone how wonderful it was.

One of those appalling pastor types debated Stephen Fry and Jordan Peterson on Friday on the relative merits of political correctness.

Whether it's worth two hours of your time you will have to decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxYimeaoea0

[Ash]

One of those appalling pastor types debated Stephen Fry and Jordan Peterson on Friday on the relative merits of political correctness.

Whether it's worth two hours of your time you will have to decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxYimeaoea0

Have you spent the two hours on it? If so what did you think? #tldr

[Monty92]

Have you spent the two hours on it? If so what did you think? #tldr

Yeah.

I think it was about as good a debate as that kind of format will ever allow. That is, wholly inadequate and ultimately frustrating

[Burney]

Yeah.

I think it was about as good a debate as that kind of format will ever allow. That is, wholly inadequate and ultimately frustrating

But there is no debating anymore. We're dealing with dogma. You might as well put two rational atheists and two clerics on the stage and have them debate. At some point, the argument runs into the brick wall of unbending dogmatic belief in a monolithic idea that is not subject to rational critique for the simple reason that it is not rational.

[Monty92]

but I think the format is the main obstacle.

With a longer format and a good moderator, it would be possible to cut through the dogma and get to the nub of the matter.

One-to-one podcasts with no time limit are by far and away the best format for these things. Did you listen to Sam Harris vs Ezra Klein, by any chance?

But there is no debating anymore. We're dealing with dogma. You might as well put two rational atheists and two clerics on the stage and have them debate. At some point, the argument runs into the brick wall of unbending dogmatic belief in a monolithic idea that is not subject to rational critique for the simple reason that it is not rational.

[Burney]

One of those appalling pastor types debated Stephen Fry and Jordan Peterson on Friday on the relative merits of political correctness.

Whether it's worth two hours of your time you will have to decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxYimeaoea0

I've watched bits of it. The two people against them (including the pastor) seemed pathetically outgunned intellectually.

What's interesting regarding Fry's involvement is that the comedy/media establishment (at least those parts of it bright enough to notice and rich enough to not have to worry about it costing them work) do seem finally to be waking up to the monster they've created. Whether this means others will dare stick their heads above the parapet remains to be seen.

[Monty92]

I've watched bits of it. The two people against them (including the pastor) seemed pathetically outgunned intellectually.

What's interesting regarding Fry's involvement is that the comedy/media establishment (at least those parts of it bright enough to notice and rich enough to not have to worry about it costing them work) do seem finally to be waking up to the monster they've created. Whether this means others will dare stick their heads above the parapet remains to be seen.

Fry has always done that, to be fair. He's been railing against 'offensive culture' for years.

He does talk about the point you're making during this debate, though - in particular how he would be ostracised if he expressed certain opinions among his media luvvie counterparts.

Of course, the pastor's response was pretty much "Don't talk to me about oppression - you're a rich white man."

[Burney]

Fry has always done that, to be fair. He's been railing against 'offensive culture' for years.

He does talk about the point you're making during this debate, though - in particular how he would be ostracised if he expressed certain opinions among his media luvvie counterparts.

Of course, the pastor's response was pretty much "Don't talk to me about oppression - you're a rich white man."

Yes. But he seems to have become a bit more active about it recently.

The pastor's response, of course, is a classically oppressive one and demonstrates the problem neatly, since it is explicitly designed to clamp down on free expression of contrary opinions by dint of race and socio-economic status. The blindness to this profound contradiction can only be wilful, which is what makes it so sinister.