C'mon out MONTY!!! We want to talk football with you

[Peter]

So you didn't see anything in the Liverpool game concerning enough to merit analysis beyond 'it's only the third game, let's be patient'?

And our transfer window spending, assuming we sell Ox for the numbers being bandied about, will be about net zero, meanwhile some teams that finished ahead of us are spending 100mil+, and this is in no way surprising or concerning?

Concerning or not, it is in no way new. Although I didnt watch the Liverpool game I bet it was no worse than others over the years. It cant have been any worse than the one where we were 4-0 down after 20 minutes. That one looked like the entire team was hungover and had just got out of bed.

Is any of this new/surprising/worse than the last ten years? I dont think it is.

[Monty92]

Concerning or not, it is in no way new. Although I didnt watch the Liverpool game I bet it was no worse than others over the years. It cant have been any worse than the one where we were 4-0 down after 20 minutes. That one looked like the entire team was hungover and had just got out of bed.

Is any of this new/surprising/worse than the last ten years? I dont think it is.

There are many other clubs who have been perpetually unsuccessful for ten years or more, who have regularly changed their manager, and whose fans will often tell you that "nothing's changed" during that time.

[Peter]

There are many other clubs who have been perpetually unsuccessful for ten years or more, who have regularly changed their manager, and whose fans will often tell you that "nothing's changed" during that time.

I am not sure there are actually. Certainly not clubs of our size. Even if there were, it doesn't really add much to the debate does it?

Anyway, I think my point was that we probably shouldn't be getting so upset about this type of chaos. We should be used to it and it is exactly why so many people want Wenger out. Essentially, I am sort of agreeing with you, in a way.

[Monty92]

I am not sure there are actually. Certainly not clubs of our size. Even if there were, it doesn't really add much to the debate does it?

Anyway, I think my point was that we probably shouldn't be getting so upset about this type of chaos. We should be used to it and it is exactly why so many people want Wenger out. Essentially, I am sort of agreeing with you, in a way.

Liverpool, Spurs?

[Peter]

Liverpool, Spurs?

Spurs to some extent although they have currently solved the problem. It may well reappear.

Liverpool have come far closer than us to winning the league over the last 10 years. Not consistently good but rather silly to say that nothing had changed. It changed constantly.

Of course there are other ways to **** up, nobody is denying it. I think a few of us would even be happy to fail in a different way for a little while, just to make it interesting.

[Monty92]

Spurs to some extent although they have currently solved the problem. It may well reappear.

Liverpool have come far closer than us to winning the league over the last 10 years. Not consistently good but rather silly to say that nothing had changed. It changed constantly.

Of course there are other ways to **** up, nobody is denying it. I think a few of us would even be happy to fail in a different way for a little while, just to make it interesting.

In other words, no club (whether they've stuck with the same manager or chopped and changed every year or two) has managed to successfully challenge the hegemony of clubs that have either been financially doped or have come from a historical base of being a far bigger and richer club.

[Burney]

In other words, no club (whether they've stuck with the same manager or chopped and changed every year or two) has managed to successfully challenge the hegemony of clubs that have either been financially doped or have come from a historical base of being a far bigger and richer club.

As always, Leicester are the racially unacceptable term in this particular woodpile.

[World's End Stella]

In other words, no club (whether they've stuck with the same manager or chopped and changed every year or two) has managed to successfully challenge the hegemony of clubs that have either been financially doped or have come from a historical base of being a far bigger and richer club.

How is that relevant to the discussion, though? We are one of those historically big clubs not to mention being one of the ten richest clubs in the world.

So the relevant question is whether or not any of the other clubs in that bracket would accept the same manager failing consistently to challenge for, or win, the league for the same reasons over a ten year period without replacing him.

And I think the answer to that is a very clear 'no'.

[Peter]

In other words, no club (whether they've stuck with the same manager or chopped and changed every year or two) has managed to successfully challenge the hegemony of clubs that have either been financially doped or have come from a historical base of being a far bigger and richer club.

Which is very different from your original point and discounts the fact that Spurs are, arguably, currently doing exactly that with a turnover substantially lower than ours.

Once you bring resources into the argument you have to face the question of whether we are making the best of ours, regardless of whether that challenges the financially doped or historically bigger. Its tough to argue that we are.

[Sir C]

I am not sure there are actually. Certainly not clubs of our size. Even if there were, it doesn't really add much to the debate does it?

Anyway, I think my point was that we probably shouldn't be getting so upset about this type of chaos. We should be used to it and it is exactly why so many people want Wenger out. Essentially, I am sort of agreeing with you, in a way.

Aston Villa? Everton? How about clubs who were undoubtedly as big as us? Sheffield Wednesday? Leeds? Huddersfield?