So what's the opinion on the people who were subletting their flats at Grenfell Tower

[Monty92]

It's only a political scandal in the sense that politicians are ultimately responsible for social housing. What it is not, however, is a party political scandal. As you say, Labour boroughs seem to be equally culpable in terms of the type of cladding used and it is simply luck that this happened under a Tory council. What Labour are clearly trying to do, however, is frame this in terms of 'Evil Tories murder poor, brown people' with the apparent intention of promoting civil unrest. That is the purest bullshït and monstrously cynical and irresponsible.

The problem is, now that Labour have been taken over by the hard left, they are much more easily able to distance themselves from the party of yesteryear. So they can claim that all of these terrible decisions were made in the bad old days when the Labour party was infested with red Tories and that *this* Labour party will not allow such gross negligence by local authorities to take place ever again.

And as we have seen, people will swallow it.

[Burney]

The problem is, now that Labour have been taken over by the hard left, they are much more easily able to distance themselves from the party of yesteryear. So they can claim that all of these terrible decisions were made in the bad old days when the Labour party was infested with red Tories and that *this* Labour party will not allow such gross negligence by local authorities to take place ever again.

And as we have seen, people will swallow it.

I do wonder how much people are actually swallowing, though. I think there are a lot of voters out there who were probably quite scared by how close they came to creating a Corbyn government and will be unlikely to make that mistake again.

[Monty92]

I do wonder how much people are actually swallowing, though. I think there are a lot of voters out there who were probably quite scared by how close they came to creating a Corbyn government and will be unlikely to make that mistake again.

As always, I hope you're right. But I fear you overplay the extent to which voters are influenced by "fear". I think only a small number vote on such visceral grounds. The big concern is that Labour, much like Trump, have managed to create a political climate in which voting for an outsider who doesn't look or sound like your average politician, feels fun and exciting. And we don't know how much more that can be pushed.

I worry about how many friends of friends will be co-erced into voting for Corbyn next time round. Granted, many of these will be in safe Labour seats, but we simply don't know how far this style of campaigning can go.

[Sir C]

As always, I hope you're right. But I fear you overplay the extent to which voters are influenced by "fear". I think only a small number vote on such visceral grounds. The big concern is that Labour, much like Trump, have managed to create a political climate in which voting for an outsider who doesn't look or sound like your average politician, feels fun and exciting. And we don't know how much more that can be pushed.

I worry about how many friends of friends will be co-erced into voting for Corbyn next time round. Granted, many of these will be in safe Labour seats, but we simply don't know how far this style of campaigning can go.

Our main hope must be that the Tories can't get it so wildly wrong again next time. Surely!

[Burney]

As always, I hope you're right. But I fear you overplay the extent to which voters are influenced by "fear". I think only a small number vote on such visceral grounds. The big concern is that Labour, much like Trump, have managed to create a political climate in which voting for an outsider who doesn't look or sound like your average politician, feels fun and exciting. And we don't know how much more that can be pushed.

I worry about how many friends of friends will be co-erced into voting for Corbyn next time round. Granted, many of these will be in safe Labour seats, but we simply don't know how far this style of campaigning can go.

My suspicion is that a confident, Corbyn-led Labour Party will become increasingly off-putting, since it will start to show its very ugly side as it starts to look less bumbling and more sinister.

[Pokster]

I do wonder how much people are actually swallowing, though. I think there are a lot of voters out there who were probably quite scared by how close they came to creating a Corbyn government and will be unlikely to make that mistake again.

I thought you weren't ever going to make election predictions again??

[Ash]

The problem is, now that Labour have been taken over by the hard left, they are much more easily able to distance themselves from the party of yesteryear. So they can claim that all of these terrible decisions were made in the bad old days when the Labour party was infested with red Tories and that *this* Labour party will not allow such gross negligence by local authorities to take place ever again.

And as we have seen, people will swallow it.

You're getting good at this handwringing routine.

Now, is there a For Sale sign outside Mezut's house yet?

[Ash]

handwringing

Maybe pearl-clutching would have been a better description tbf.

[Burney]

Maybe pearl-clutching would have been a better description tbf.

Handwringing deffo sounded a bit anti-semitic to me.

[Monty92]

You're getting good at this handwringing routine.

Now, is there a For Sale sign outside Mezut's house yet?

I'll check in about an hour.