It does sometimes feel like the backlash against rote learning has simply resulted in them not learning anything.Originally Posted by Peter
I had to correct a junior yesterday (English graduate) because she said 'You and I' when she should have said 'You and me' and said 'amount' when she should have said 'number' in the space of a minute.
She seemed outraged by the 'You and I' thing. She said 'I was always taught it was right to say 'You and I'!'
It stems from failing to teach grammar at school. And maths.It does sometimes feel like the backlash against rote learning has simply resulted in them not learning anything.
I had to correct a junior yesterday (English graduate) because she said 'You and I' when she should have said 'You and me' and said 'amount' when she should have said 'number' in the space of a minute.
She seemed outraged by the 'You and I' thing. She said 'I was always taught it was right to say 'You and I'!'
I went to an outstanding school and we were never tasught much about grammar, punctuation etc. My mum taught me all that.
The you and I thing isnt difficult to grasp. You just use the one you would use if the other person wasn't there. Ie He gave it to me/he gave it to Dave and me.
I spend much of my day correcting reports written by my team. Some of them are appalling.
I know. I had to explain the passive voice to someone the other day. I ended up explaining it as I would to a child by saying that, if they appended the phrase 'by monkeys' to the end of the sentence and it still made sense, it was the passive voice and if they added it and it didn't make sense, it was in the active voice. There was no point talking about subjects and objects because they just don't understand the terms and switch off when you use them.
They now all think I'm some sort of pedantic old grammar Nazi of course (and they may not be entirely wrong) but, as I pointed out to one the other day, they work with the written word and it is actually my job to make sure they know how to use it correctly.
I saw that '....by monkeys' thing on Twitter this morning, very handy.
I was taught it 30-something years ago. It certainly works - much like the method p describes for remembering the 'You and I/You and me thing.
The thing that people who just think I'm a grammar nazi don't get is that, once you learn these things, it actually hurts your soul when you hear them misused. If I hear someone say amount when they mean number, describe a company as a plural or say less when they mean fewer, it's like nails down a blackboard for me.
Tesco and Tescos, does my head in.I was taught it 30-something years ago. It certainly works - much like the method p describes for remembering the 'You and I/You and me thing.
The thing that people who just think I'm a grammar nazi don't get is that, once you learn these things, it actually hurts your soul when you hear them misused. If I hear someone say amount when they mean number, describe a company as a plural or say less when they mean fewer, it's like nails down a blackboard for me.
Look at the bloody sign, does it say 'Tescos'....no, it bloody doesn't!!
I would put people who say 'mischiev-ee-ous' rather than 'mischievous' in camps until they learn to stop doing it.
I mean there is literally no justification for adding the extra syllable. Why do they do this?
Yes. But it must be said that all this is a bit rich coming from a bunch of Cockneys.I was taught it 30-something years ago. It certainly works - much like the method p describes for remembering the 'You and I/You and me thing.
The thing that people who just think I'm a grammar nazi don't get is that, once you learn these things, it actually hurts your soul when you hear them misused. If I hear someone say amount when they mean number, describe a company as a plural or say less when they mean fewer, it's like nails down a blackboard for me.
"Plenty of strikers can score goals," he said, gesturing to the famous old stands casting shadows around us.
"But a lot have found it difficult wearing the number 9 shirt for The Arsenal."
Indeed. Of course in some circumstances incorrect grammar and punctuation drastically changes the meaning of the sentence- the Jameson Raid being perhaps the most famous example.
It is quite funny how pedantry has become synonymous with Nazism. Were the Nazis particularly pedantic?
Actually telling children and young people they are wrong and that this is a matter of fact, not opinion is now synonymous with right-wing authoritarianism. It goes against all the principles (ha!) of post-modernist relativism.
This is why teachers fight shy of it. Also because most of them are ignorant cvnts themselves.
Last edited by Burney; 05-03-2018 at 11:43 AM.
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