Andrew Neil and Squeaking Little Shít Owen Jones should settle this like men.

[Monty92]

Firstly, throughout this entire conversation I have not called either of you racist. I have consistently drawn a comparison between prejudice based on race (the anti semitism B accuses Labour of) and prejudice based on faith (the two of you and your muslim baiting). That should make it clearI am not calling you racist- I am however equating your faith-based prejudice with a race-based one. This isnt the same thing.

Secondly, your insistence that it is purely the faith that you despise is horse****. You admit yourself it is the behaviours you despise (the ghettos, therape gangs, etc). These are the behaviours of individuals. Throughout all of our conversations you have held the line that the religion itself, and alone, is responsible for these behaviours. this is the device you both use to justify your prejudice- I dont hate people, I hate their beliefs. It hinges on you proving that the religion is responsible for how these people behave, flagrantlydisregarding the fact that billions of Muslims around the globe believe the same thing and don't behave this way.

B ridicules the notion that anyone could hate judaism, and insists that they simply hate jews- it simply must be the case. they couldnt possibly hate Israel, they couldn't possibly have an issue with US-led zionism, they couldn't possibly have faith-based objections. It is purely andsimply the hatred of individuals based on race and is therefore unacceptable.

I get your objections, I understand why you both think the way you do. But you are applying a double standard here in chucking stones at othersand the distinction, and the argument that separates the individual from heir belief is almost unbearably tenuous.

Firstly, you are wrong, I have never said that religion alone is responsible for all negative behaviour by Muslims. I could talk to you plenty about any number of contributing factors including the justifications of choice for most leftist apologists for acts of terrorism such as western foreign policy and mental illness (both of which I think can often be factors to some degree).

Secondly,I didn't say you accused us of being racist (how could I, when Islam is not a race?). But your accusation of us being inherently discriminatory towards Muslims as individuals is not much better and no more justified.

As I said, there is nothing intrinsically discriminatory about stating that things would have been better if no Muslim had ever come to the UK and it is only our ingrained sensitivity about matters of religion and race that makes it sound contentious to our ears (and i agree it certainly sounds contentious).

And no, I would certainly never casually say it to a Muslim because that would make me a giant c[U]nt. What I should be able to do, however, is say it in the spirit of open conversation without someone like you accusing me of judging every individual Muslim by the same standards as I do the worst kind of Muslim.

Let's be honest, if you had evidence that one Muslim refugee out of a million was going to murder you or your family, and had the choice of whether to let them all in, or none of them, you would soon find yourself being "discriminatory" too.