Whoa! 'Theresa May to call Arlene Foster later today to pitch border deal'?

[Peter]

Balls. This is just a way of saying ‘People should not be allowed to vote for outcomes I might dislike’.

It also happens to be true. Talk to the average person about politics.

You know where I work. I asked 25 people here who the head of the church of england was. Around 17/18 very well educated people didnt know.

I knew the answer to that when I was 8 years old. How the **** can you not know that?????

People are horribly disengaged with politics and for that reason I have always opposed referenda. I have been very clear on that through all the years I have been on here. You know it, I know it and until the referendum was on the subject of Brexit, you agree with me.

I heard three sociologists going on and on about how a second referendum is inevitable. It ****ing isnt.....

[SWv2]

It also happens to be true. Talk to the average person about politics.

You know where I work. I asked 25 people here who the head of the church of england was. Around 17/18 very well educated people didnt know.

I knew the answer to that when I was 8 years old. How the **** can you not know that?????

People are horribly disengaged with politics and for that reason I have always opposed referenda. I have been very clear on that through all the years I have been on here. You know it, I know it and until the referendum was on the subject of Brexit, you agree with me.

I heard three sociologists going on and on about how a second referendum is inevitable. It ****ing isnt.....

Is CoE relevant to politics?

[Peter]

Is CoE relevant to politics?

It is pretty relevant to british history as it is the result of...well, Henry VIII and all that, independence from Rome and popery ..... It is a fundamental part of our political structure in terms of the separation of church and state (and the fact that we dont have it).

It isnt directly relevant to current politics but it is still a staggering example of ignorance.

[SWv2]

It is pretty relevant to british history as it is the result of...well, Henry VIII and all that, independence from Rome and popery ..... It is a fundamental part of our political structure in terms of the separation of church and state (and the fact that we dont have it).

It isnt directly relevant to current politics but it is still a staggering example of ignorance.

Who is the head out of curiosity, Queenie?

[Peter]

Who is the head out of curiosity, Queenie?

Precisely. See, even you know. Even an irishman of pathological loathing for all things british knows.

We should have let you vote....

[World's End Stella]

It also happens to be true. Talk to the average person about politics.

You know where I work. I asked 25 people here who the head of the church of england was. Around 17/18 very well educated people didnt know.

I knew the answer to that when I was 8 years old. How the **** can you not know that?????

People are horribly disengaged with politics and for that reason I have always opposed referenda. I have been very clear on that through all the years I have been on here. You know it, I know it and until the referendum was on the subject of Brexit, you agree with me.

I heard three sociologists going on and on about how a second referendum is inevitable. It ****ing isnt.....

Ah, well if your point is that we should avoid referendums at all costs then I would agree with you. It wasn't clear that you were making that point until now, I think.

The voting public can be trusted with voting for the right person to represent them, but no more. But the problem is that there was no way that political parties, outside of nutters like Farage, were ever going to run a campaign based on leaving the EU because it was too risky and there was no quantitative basis for doing so.

Basically, Cameron out!

[Burney]

It also happens to be true. Talk to the average person about politics.

You know where I work. I asked 25 people here who the head of the church of england was. Around 17/18 very well educated people didnt know.

I knew the answer to that when I was 8 years old. How the **** can you not know that?????

People are horribly disengaged with politics and for that reason I have always opposed referenda. I have been very clear on that through all the years I have been on here. You know it, I know it and until the referendum was on the subject of Brexit, you agree with me.

I heard three sociologists going on and on about how a second referendum is inevitable. It ****ing isnt.....

Ignorance does not - can not - constitute sufficient reason to deny someone a vote, I'm afraid. And on matters of national self-determination such as Scottish independence or Brexit, there really is no alternative to referenda. The EU was a special case in that there had been a profound democratic deficit on the subject for decades. There was a total failure by all the main political parties to represent a deeply-held Euroscepticism in the country and the inevitable result was the rise of a single-issue party able to create sufficient pressure on votes to force a referendum.

[Peter]

Ignorance does not - can not - constitute sufficient reason to deny someone a vote, I'm afraid. And on matters of national self-determination such as Scottish independence or Brexit, there really is no alternative to referenda. The EU was a special case in that there had been a profound democratic deficit on the subject for decades. There was a total failure by all the main political parties to represent a deeply-held Euroscepticism in the country and the inevitable result was the rise of a single-issue party able to create sufficient pressure on votes to force a referendum.

Yes, to answer the point above first I think it is laughable to accuse me of wanting to abandon democracy. We have a representative, parliamentary democracy that does not necessitate the use of referenda. It is a choice taken by our representatives and is nothing to do with democracy whatsoever. They were perfectly able to take this decision themselves but chose not to do so. One can argue that it is fairer to hold the public vote, and it may well be. But please dont take some moral high ground on democracy. Its unbecoming and irrelevant.

The referendum was an electoral ploy by the PRime Minister to fight the UKIP threat in Tory constituencies. THat is all.

There is arguably as much pressure for a referendum now as there was initially, if not more. THere is plenty of evidence to suggest that people were not aware of the consequences of their vote. Why should we not hold a second referendum on the exit plan?

[SWv2]

Yes, to answer the point above first I think it is laughable to accuse me of wanting to abandon democracy. We have a representative, parliamentary democracy that does not necessitate the use of referenda. It is a choice taken by our representatives and is nothing to do with democracy whatsoever. They were perfectly able to take this decision themselves but chose not to do so. One can argue that it is fairer to hold the public vote, and it may well be. But please dont take some moral high ground on democracy. Its unbecoming and irrelevant.

The referendum was an electoral ploy by the PRime Minister to fight the UKIP threat in Tory constituencies. THat is all.

There is arguably as much pressure for a referendum now as there was initially, if not more. THere is plenty of evidence to suggest that people were not aware of the consequences of their vote. Why should we not hold a second referendum on the exit plan?

The Irish method.

[Peter]

The Irish method.

You fellas love a bit of the EU though, dont you.

We have never really got on with it here, as an institution. Its basically French, for starters.