So it seems our chums in the ever-democratic EU are threatening to suspend Poland's

[redgunamo]

If the context is 'any time some body has to do something they don't want to it's un-democratic' then yes it is.

I'm always amused when people criticise the EU for not being democratic. Because getting 28 different countries to act as a union and reap the benefits of that union while allowing them to vote on everything and opt out of anything they don't agree with would just be sooooo easy.

No, it's more than that. Europeans are simply not democratic by nature; the whole concept is simply not in their bones, the way it is for the English.

For this reason, any organisational structure they come up with is bound, from the start, to be undemocratic. And whatsmore, they do not see a problem with that, whereas many of us do.

[Burney]

No, it's more than that. Europeans are simply not democratic by nature; the whole concept is simply not in their bones, the way it is for the English.

For this reason, any organisational structure they come up with is bound, from the start, to be undemocratic. And whatsmore, they do not see a problem with that, whereas many of us do.

It's the Napoleonic code, basically. They see it as a reasonable blueprint for law and government, whereas we see it for what it is: a means devised by a tyrant to control a subject population. That divide has always been at the heart of Britain's issues with the EU.

[Sir C]

That's like accusing the Tories of not being democratic because they insist MPs vote along party lines. If you want to be in the club, you need to be part of the club.

You realise that Conservative MPs are elected by the people of this country to serve in the parliament of this country, do you?

Sometimes I think that pokster's assault must have shifted the plates in your head mate.

[World's End Stella]

You realise that Conservative MPs are elected by the people of this country to serve in the parliament of this country, do you?

Sometimes I think that pokster's assault must have shifted the plates in your head mate.

I'm afraid your point is just a really stupid one, Charles. Think harder next time.

[Sir C]

I'm afraid your point is just a really stupid one, Charles. Think harder next time.

K! Will do.

[World's End Stella]

K! Will do.

You've made me feel guilty now.

You c*nt.

[Burney]

That's like accusing the Tories of not being democratic because they insist MPs vote along party lines. If you want to be in the club, you need to be part of the club.

That would have rather more validity had the EU not studiously ignored it when the previous, pro-EU Polish government undertook similar measures.

Besides, it's the optics that are the real problem here. They are now being seen to be overtly interfering in the internal governance of a member country because they don't like its government's policies. This sort of naked attack on democratic sovereignty makes explicit to people just what an appalling shítshow the EU really is, which can only be good.

[World's End Stella]

That would have rather more validity had the EU not studiously ignored it when the previous, pro-EU Polish government undertook similar measures.

Besides, it's the optics that are the real problem here. They are now being seen to be overtly interfering in the internal governance of a member country because they don't like its government's policies. This sort of naked attack on democratic sovereignty makes explicit to people just what an appalling shítshow the EU really is, which can only be good.

Not knowing what the specific issue is that you are referring to, I'm guessing you could rephrase what you posted as 'they have expressed concern that an EU member state is proposing something that is inconsistent with the state's EU membership'.

And they have every right to do that, as I said, if you want to be in the club. I notice the EU expressing concern about the threat to democracy in Turkey and the impact that would have on their attempt to join the EU. I don't hear many criticising them for that 'interference'.

[Burney]

Not knowing what the specific issue is that you are referring to, I'm guessing you could rephrase what you posted as 'they have expressed concern that an EU member state is proposing something that is inconsistent with the state's EU membership'.

And they have every right to do that, as I said, if you want to be in the club. I notice the EU expressing concern about the threat to democracy in Turkey and the impact that would have on their attempt to join the EU. I don't hear many criticising them for that 'interference'.

No, they have said they are considering invoking Article 7 for the first time in their history to suspend Poland's voting rights.

[World's End Stella]

No, they have said they are considering invoking Article 7 for the first time in their history to suspend Poland's voting rights.

Why? What is it that Poland are doing or thinking of doing that the EU don't like? And will there be a vote of some kind to decide whether or not to invoke Article 7?