So it seems our chums in the ever-democratic EU are threatening to suspend Poland's

[World's End Stella]

Essentially, then, you are happy for you, your children, grandchildren and fellow citizens to be progressively disenfranchised as long as the money's good? That seems a remarkably dim, selfish, historically illiterate and short-sighted view to me - not least because it's predicated on the rather dubious premise that the money will always be good.

Unfortunately, it's a fairly common attitude. At least - unlike most middle-class remainers - you're honest about it. I'lll give you that.

The UK was a rather important member of the EU and heavily influenced many decisions and there is no factual basis for the claim that the EU will become more 'undemocratic' with time. You just make that bit up because it suits your argument.

I'm happy to lose some control provided I think the upside merits it and I know that we can always withdraw if we no longer want to be part of it. As that is the case with the EU, I see no strong case for Leave beyond immigration scaremongering a very dubious long term global trading strategy that has so many holes it doesn't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.

As we know, the under 55s voted Remain, the over 55s voted overwhelmingly to Leave. I think we all know why the older generation voted the way they did, dear old England and all that nonsense.

[Sir C]

The UK was a rather important member of the EU and heavily influenced many decisions and there is no factual basis for the claim that the EU will become more 'undemocratic' with time. You just make that bit up because it suits your argument.

I'm happy to lose some control provided I think the upside merits it and I know that we can always withdraw if we no longer want to be part of it. As that is the case with the EU, I see no strong case for Leave beyond immigration scaremongering a very dubious long term global trading strategy that has so many holes it doesn't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.

As we know, the under 55s voted Remain, the over 55s voted overwhelmingly to Leave. I think we all know why the older generation voted the way they did, dear old England and all that nonsense.

There is nothing nonsensical about 'dear old England'. You may not understand patriotism, having chosen to abandon your homeland, but you might at least display sufficient politeness to allow the existance of such a concept in the nation which has welcomed you and allowed you to settle and build a life.

[World's End Stella]

There is nothing nonsensical about 'dear old England'. You may not understand patriotism, having chosen to abandon your homeland, but you might at least display sufficient politeness to allow the existance of such a concept in the nation which has welcomed you and allowed you to settle and build a life.

The nonsensical bit is the idea that voting Leave would in some way allow a return to something like the dear old England of their childhood.

Not to mention that that dear old England included rationing, massive debts, socialism far beyond what we have now, lower living standards, a hand out to the IMF, rampant racism, sh1t food and seriously bad clothes at various times.

[Sir C]

The nonsensical bit is the idea that voting Leave would in some way allow a return to something like the dear old England of their childhood.

Not to mention that that dear old England included rationing, massive debts, socialism far beyond what we have now, lower living standards, a hand out to the IMF, rampant racism, sh1t food and seriously bad clothes at various times.

Well, the rationing, massive debts and socialism were a direct result of sorting out Europe's shít, the lower living standards, racism, **** food and dubious fashion choices far from unique to the UK.

You don't understand dear old England; you don't feel dear old England. That's fine, but please remember your position as a guest in our country and keep your foul views to yourself. Otherwise we will have to send pokster to relieve you of the burden of living. Thank you.

[World's End Stella]

Well, the rationing, massive debts and socialism were a direct result of sorting out Europe's shít, the lower living standards, racism, **** food and dubious fashion choices far from unique to the UK.

You don't understand dear old England; you don't feel dear old England. That's fine, but please remember your position as a guest in our country and keep your foul views to yourself. Otherwise we will have to send pokster to relieve you of the burden of living. Thank you.

I can assure you, Charles, that dear old England is still alive and well. I felt it from the day I arrived. It's why I stayed.

Well, that and knocking up an Essex bird.

And if you think that there is a sign that the empire is not well, having to send Pokster along as a sign of strength would have to be right up there.

[Peter]

The nonsensical bit is the idea that voting Leave would in some way allow a return to something like the dear old England of their childhood.

Not to mention that that dear old England included rationing, massive debts, socialism far beyond what we have now, lower living standards, a hand out to the IMF, rampant racism, sh1t food and seriously bad clothes at various times.

Yeah, but not THAT dear old England.

Its more Rupert Brooke's England we are talking about. Well not we, I think its all *******s.

[Burney]

The UK was a rather important member of the EU and heavily influenced many decisions and there is no factual basis for the claim that the EU will become more 'undemocratic' with time. You just make that bit up because it suits your argument.

I'm happy to lose some control provided I think the upside merits it and I know that we can always withdraw if we no longer want to be part of it. As that is the case with the EU, I see no strong case for Leave beyond immigration scaremongering a very dubious long term global trading strategy that has so many holes it doesn't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.

As we know, the under 55s voted Remain, the over 55s voted overwhelmingly to Leave. I think we all know why the older generation voted the way they did, dear old England and all that nonsense.

Like most of your glib sort, you forget that the over 55s were the people who voted us into Europe in the first place. They have experienced more of Europe for longer than anyone else and they found it wanting. They are also the generation who can remember what life was like before the EU and if, with hindsight, they decided they rather preferred it, I'd say that represents a fairly damning judgement on the 'benefits' of EU membership to ordinary people, wouldn't you?

As for your assertion that 'we can leave if we want to', it's obvious bullshīt. We had one chance in my lifetime to leave due to an unprecedented and almost certainly never-to-be-repeated set of circumstances. Thankfully, we took it. And even then - with a clear vote in favour of leaving - our overlords (to whom you are happy to cede more and more powers, by the way) are doing everything in their power to frustrate that democratic decision.

Oh, and it's beside the point, but there's nothing 'scaremongering' about this country's immigration issue, I can assure you.

[World's End Stella]

Like most of your glib sort, you forget that the over 55s were the people who voted us into Europe in the first place. They have experienced more of Europe for longer than anyone else and they found it wanting. They are also the generation who can remember what life was like before the EU and if, with hindsight, they decided they rather preferred it, I'd say that represents a fairly damning judgement on the 'benefits' of EU membership to ordinary people, wouldn't you?

As for your assertion that 'we can leave if we want to', it's obvious bullshīt. We had one chance in my lifetime to leave due to an unprecedented and almost certainly never-to-be-repeated set of circumstances. Thankfully, we took it. And even then - with a clear vote in favour of leaving - our overlords (to whom you are happy to cede more and more powers, by the way) are doing everything in their power to frustrate that democratic decision.

Oh, and it's beside the point, but there's nothing 'scaremongering' about this country's immigration issue, I can assure you.

I doubt very many people who remember life in the 50s and 60s think it is preferable to our current lifestyle unless they are viewing it through bigoted eyes. By virtually every measurable standard our lifestyle has improved. Unemployment levels, home ownership, life expectancy, education levels, quality of healthcare - things get better with time, mostly because human beings are a rather clever lot who tend to get things right.

I'm disappointed in your lack of faith in the intellects of the under 55s, Burnley. Are we really that stupid?

And I never said I was happy to cede more power to the EU, so please stop making things up. I said That I was happy to cede some control if the upside merited it, which is hardly the same thing.

[Burney]

I doubt very many people who remember life in the 50s and 60s think it is preferable to our current lifestyle unless they are viewing it through bigoted eyes. By virtually every measurable standard our lifestyle has improved. Unemployment levels, home ownership, life expectancy, education levels, quality of healthcare - things get better with time, mostly because human beings are a rather clever lot who tend to get things right.

I'm disappointed in your lack of faith in the intellects of the under 55s, Burnley. Are we really that stupid?

And I never said I was happy to cede more power to the EU, so please stop making things up. I said That I was happy to cede some control if the upside merited it, which is hardly the same thing.

So you're now suggesting the EU has brought all these benefits, are you? That's a rather grandiose claim, if I may say so. How have all those developed countries not in the EU managed, I wonder?
Of course various things in life have got better. That has nothing to do, however, with membership of the Common Market/EEC/EC/EU, upon which over-55s made a judgement and - as I say - found it wanting.

[Sir C]

So you're now suggesting the EU has brought all these benefits, are you? That's a rather grandiose claim, if I may say so. How have all those developed countries not in the EU managed, I wonder?
Of course various things in life have got better. That has nothing to do, however, with membership of the Common Market/EEC/EC/EU, upon which over-55s made a judgement and - as I say - found it wanting.

Consider life in Switzerland, with the famine and the plagues and that