Labour's attempts to differentiate their position on Brexit and specifically

[Burney]

It is a tough sell, I agree. My question was to those who are happy with one and not the other, not some contorted moral question about the right to throw ideological stones.

I wouldn't say those in Brussels were far greater, but then I don't have a problem with either. Democracy is not the be all and end all to me- I think my point is that it isn't for a lot of other people until the undemocratic institution in question speaks with a French accent.

Of course. But it speaking with a French accent is a fundamental problem. We've never really signed up to this idea of destroying the nation state and breaking down national identities. To an Englishman, it is still 'them' (all foreigners) and 'us' (the English with the unfortunate celts allowed to join in if they behave). That is not a criticism. It is an attitude of mind that has served us well for rather a long time, in fact.

Ultimately, it boils down to this, p: You can't trust foreigners. They're not as good as Englishmen. That's just a fact.

[Peter]

Of course. But it speaking with a French accent is a fundamental problem. We've never really signed up to this idea of destroying the nation state and breaking down national identities. To an Englishman, it is still 'them' (all foreigners) and 'us' (the English with the unfortunate celts allowed to join in if they behave). That is not a criticism. It is an attitude of mind that has served us well for rather a long time, in fact.

Ultimately, it boils down to this, p: You can't trust foreigners. They're not as good as Englishmen. That's just a fact.

Which is a far more honest and accurate description of the common view than some old horse**** about democracy. Not that I am suggesting that honesty and accuracy should play any part in our political process.