We must not change our way of life.

[Pat Vegas]

Well quite. What the cretins who say that ignore is the extent to which Islamic terrorism has already changed our lives. Security at airports, armed police on the streets, an increased acceptance of state monitoring of our lives - all these things have changed our way of life.

If them not changing our way of life is your benchmark for us winning, we lost ages ago.

Exactly.

But I think the Muslim community need to understand and accept that unfortunately they will need to experience some inconvenience because of actions of some people doing/saying things in the name of their religion.

But everyone is so ****ing touchy about offending anybody.

I am pretty sure there are tragedies that could or would be averted if somebody stepped in to say something rather than living in fear of being branded a racist.

[Burney]

Exactly.

But I think the Muslim community need to understand and accept that unfortunately they will need to experience some inconvenience because of actions of some people doing/saying things in the name of their religion.

But everyone is so ****ing touchy about offending anybody.

I am pretty sure there are tragedies that could or would be averted if somebody stepped in to say something rather than living in fear of being branded a racist.

The statutory legitimisation of offence-taking has been a disaster. People are entitled to believe whatever the hell they want. However, they are not entitled to expect others to respect those beliefs and they are certainly not entitled to enact those beliefs in such a way that it impinges upon the day-to-day operation of a modern, liberal, secular society. These things you would have thought were self-evident, but instead society has twisted itself into knots to accommodate the entirely incompatible belief system of a particular religious group. The result has been chaos, resentment and entrenched division.

[redgunamo]

The statutory legitimisation of offence-taking has been a disaster. People are entitled to believe whatever the hell they want. However, they are not entitled to expect others to respect those beliefs and they are certainly not entitled to enact those beliefs in such a way that it impinges upon the day-to-day operation of a modern, liberal, secular society. These things you would have thought were self-evident, but instead society has twisted itself into knots to accommodate the entirely incompatible belief system of a particular religious group. The result has been chaos, resentment and entrenched division.

There's the rub though; they actually are entitled. Otherwise, what does modern, liberal and secular actually mean.

[Burney]

There's the rub though; they actually are entitled. Otherwise, what does modern, liberal and secular actually mean.

Well what it should mean is a society that has a clear idea of its own values and is free and tolerant up to the point at which it is threatened. At that point, it should be confident enough to act ruthlessly in its own defence. We've made the mistake of thinking 'tolerant' means 'prepared to tolerate anything in defence of some vague idea of inclusivity'. It doesn't.

[redgunamo]

Well what it should mean is a society that has a clear idea of its own values and is free and tolerant up to the point at which it is threatened. At that point, it should be confident enough to act ruthlessly in its own defence. We've made the mistake of thinking 'tolerant' means 'prepared to tolerate anything in defence of some vague idea of inclusivity'. It doesn't.

Taken to its logical conclusion though, it does mean that. I agree that it actually shouldn't.

[redgunamo]

Exactly.

But I think the Muslim community need to understand and accept that unfortunately they will need to experience some inconvenience because of actions of some people doing/saying things in the name of their religion.

But everyone is so ****ing touchy about offending anybody.

I am pretty sure there are tragedies that could or would be averted if somebody stepped in to say something rather than living in fear of being branded a racist.

There's the essential contradiction, right there, I'm afraid. Where do you imagine people that get all upset at a bit of name-calling and one or two squaddies on street corners are going to gather the necessary resolve to take serious, cold-blooded, hard-hearted measures from.

If we were that way inclined, we wouldn't have arrived where we are in the first place.