Is Wenger being selfish?

[Burney]

This is based on the asumption that in football, supply-and-demand operates in the same way as every other business.

Which, of course, it completely doesn't.

And yet these fans demand the service they feel they have paid for in the form of results and trophies and whatnot, don't they? They feel they are entitled to value for money based on what they pay. The fact that they're too stupid to realise that the club can only charge what the market will bear and - as long as they keep coming back - that's whatever the club likes does not alter the fact that the market is still operating around them.

They are the anomaly and - as long as they keep behaving anomalously - they'll get what they deserve.

[Ash]

And yet these fans demand the service they feel they have paid for in the form of results and trophies and whatnot, don't they? They feel they are entitled to value for money based on what they pay. The fact that they're too stupid to realise that the club can only charge what the market will bear and - as long as they keep coming back - that's whatever the club likes does not alter the fact that the market is still operating around them.

They are the anomaly and - as long as they keep behaving anomalously - they'll get what they deserve.

On one hand you are insisting that market rules apply, and fans are just stupid versions of customers for coming back, but if those customers demand value for money, as customers do in every other business you lampoon this as absurd. Can't have it both ways, imo.

Perhaps a way to understand it is to recognise that the football club holds a monopoly over supporters of that football club.

[World's End Stella]

On one hand you are insisting that market rules apply, and fans are just stupid versions of customers for coming back, but if those customers demand value for money, as customers do in every other business you lampoon this as absurd. Can't have it both ways, imo.

Perhaps a way to understand it is to recognise that the football club holds a monopoly over supporters of that football club.

Yes, well said. It's no different than telling someone that uses the Underground every day that they have no right to complain because they keep using it and paying for it.

It's nonsense and, as you said earlier, there is no comparison between someone who supports a football club and someone who chooses a product in a market economy, which is the parallel Burney is trying draw.

[Sir C]

Yes, well said. It's no different than telling someone that uses the Underground every day that they have no right to complain because they keep using it and paying for it.

It's nonsense and, as you said earlier, there is no comparison between someone who supports a football club and someone who chooses a product in a market economy, which is the parallel Burney is trying draw.

Travelling on the tube might well be a financial necessity. Going to watch your football team is an emotional, subjective decision. If you can't control your emotions you probably shouldn't be allowed out without an adult, should you?

[World's End Stella]

Travelling on the tube might well be a financial necessity. Going to watch your football team is an emotional, subjective decision. If you can't control your emotions you probably shouldn't be allowed out without an adult, should you?

It might well not be, as well. They could cycle, run, walk, take a bus or drive for that matter. Just as someone who supports a football club could choose another hobby or even support another club. But that doesn't really matter because the motivation isn't the point.

The point is that they have chosen to take the Underground or support a particular club because they want to, it makes their life better. So to suggest that they have no right to complain once they have taken that decision simply because they have other options is a nonsense.

[Sir C]

It might well not be, as well. They could cycle, run, walk, take a bus or drive for that matter. Just as someone who supports a football club could choose another hobby or even support another club. But that doesn't really matter because the motivation isn't the point.

The point is that they have chosen to take the Underground or support a particular club because they want to, it makes their life better. So to suggest that they have no right to complain once they have taken that decision simply because they have other options is a nonsense.

This is madness. Suppose I choose to eat steak bought from Tesco, because I think eating steak makes my life better, but then find that the steak at Tesco is mass-produced, underhung, badly butchered rubbish; yet I continue to buy it and continue to moan about it and refuse to take my custom to a specialist butcher, or even to try the lamb. You would tell me I was a moron.

[Burney]

Yes, well said. It's no different than telling someone that uses the Underground every day that they have no right to complain because they keep using it and paying for it.

It's nonsense and, as you said earlier, there is no comparison between someone who supports a football club and someone who chooses a product in a market economy, which is the parallel Burney is trying draw.

Your parallel with the tube is absurd. No-one goes on the tube for their amusement. They do it because they have to and there is in many cases no alternative. No-one needs to go to football. It is a leisure activity and nothing more. If people treat it as something more, more fool them.

[SWv2]

Your parallel with the tube is absurd. No-one goes on the tube for their amusement. They do it because they have to and there is in many cases no alternative. No-one needs to go to football. It is a leisure activity and nothing more. If people treat it as something more, more fool them.

Message reported to Fash (RIP).

[Burney]

Message reported to Fash (RIP).

Yes, but he's a special case may the Good Lord Baby Jesus rest his soul.

[Burney]

On one hand you are insisting that market rules apply, and fans are just stupid versions of customers for coming back, but if those customers demand value for money, as customers do in every other business you lampoon this as absurd. Can't have it both ways, imo.

Perhaps a way to understand it is to recognise that the football club holds a monopoly over supporters of that football club.

I don't regard anyone who demands value for money as absurd. They are perfectly entitled to expect value for money, but only if they are prepared to use the other part of the customer's bargain and withdraw their custom if they don't get it. If they refuse to do that, they have no right to expect anything other than to get screwed.

As for your monopoly argument, it falls down on the basis that the monopoly is emotional and imposed purely by the customer on him- or herself. It's voluntary and imaginary, not imposed or real.

Now if you argued that the mere act of going to the football - that physical act of belonging - is actually what they're paying for, then you'd have a better case. However, if you accept that, then there is no way of defining what 'value for money' means in that context and thus no grounds for customer complaint as long as the club keeps letting them in.