In London, who are the people protesting against President Trump?

[World's End Stella]

No, it's head-in-the-clouds idiocy driven by a fundamentally misguided idea of what law enforcement bodies are there to achieve. You also don't believe it for a second.
Judging and policing are two different things. We should all be equal before the law, but we most certainly should not be equal before law enforcement bodies. Their job is to prevent and solve crime and that means looking where it is most likely to happen and at those people who are most likely to commit it. If law enforcement bodies behaved as you suggest, they would waste vast resources, crime rates would soar and their clear-up rates would plummet.

Seriously, though, why on earth am I arguing with someone who's already conceded his approach to crime prevention and policing makes no practical sense? Fückssake!

Oh I'd be the first to admit that my post was high level, head in the clouds, theoretical view only. In practice, there are times that we have to be more realistic and compromise the approach. But, equally, we need to be sensitive about how we conduct ourselves with respect to the definition of 'communities' and how we approach them.

As an example, would I support the public distribution of anti-terrorism pamphlets in areas which were predominantly Muslim? No, absolutely not as it leaves otherwise innocent people feeling stigmatized. Would I support a government program which sent representatives to mosques around the country in an attempt to understand the degree of radicalization within various communities and what we might be able to do to help address the issue? Absolutely.

Fine lines, Burney. I think my main point is that the definition of 'community' is one we need to be careful with, both the definition and how we use it.

[Burney]

Oh I'd be the first to admit that my post was high level, head in the clouds, theoretical view only. In practice, there are times that we have to be more realistic and compromise the approach. But, equally, we need to be sensitive about how we conduct ourselves with respect to the definition of 'communities' and how we approach them.

As an example, would I support the public distribution of anti-terrorism pamphlets in areas which were predominantly Muslim? No, absolutely not as it leaves otherwise innocent people feeling stigmatized. Would I support a government program which sent representatives to mosques around the country in an attempt to understand the degree of radicalization within various communities and what we might be able to do to help address the issue? Absolutely.

Fine lines, Burney. I think my main point is that the definition of 'community' is one we need to be careful with, both the definition and how we use it.

If someone's response when it is pointed out that there is a group of people within their locality and ethnic group who represent a clear and present terrorist danger to the public is to whine about feeling 'stigmatised' rather than think 'Well, we should do everything possible to aid the police in rooting them out because I don't want that sort of person being seen as having anything to do with me', I'd say that neatly illustrates the fundamental problem. Namely, that they put their carefully-nurtured sense of grievance ahead of the safety of their fellow citizens.

If that's the case, fûck their stigma, fück their feelings, fûck them.

[World's End Stella]

If someone's response when it is pointed out that there is a group of people within their locality and ethnic group who represent a clear and present terrorist danger to the public is to whine about feeling 'stigmatised' rather than think 'Well, we should do everything possible to aid the police in rooting them out because I don't want that sort of person being seen as having anything to do with me', I'd say that neatly illustrates the fundamental problem. Namely, that they put their carefully-nurtured sense of grievance ahead of the safety of their fellow citizens.

If that's the case, fûck their stigma, fück their feelings, fûck them.

So, if the government required all heterosexual men to attend rape awareness courses your attitude would be 'well, people of my sex and sexual orientation are almost entirely responsible for rape so it really makes sense for me to attend the course so that we can understand why men rape women and work with the authorities to try and eliminate it'.

Yeah, course you would.

[Burney]

So, if the government required all heterosexual men to attend rape awareness courses your attitude would be 'well, people of my sex and sexual orientation are almost entirely responsible for rape so it really makes sense for me to attend the course so that we can understand why men rape women and work with the authorities to try and eliminate it'.

Yeah, course you would.

Hardly comparable. If I knew or suspected a man I knew was a rapist or heard someone exhorting men to commit rape, I'd contact the police immediately. Do muslims do the same vis-a-vis radicalised young men or radicalising preachers? No, I'm afraid that in many cases they do not.

[World's End Stella]

Hardly comparable. If I knew or suspected a man I knew was a rapist or heard someone exhorting men to commit rape, I'd contact the police immediately. Do muslims do the same vis-a-vis radicalised young men or radicalising preachers? No, I'm afraid that in many cases they do not.

That's deflection, Burney. What you say is accurate but not material to the point I made.

If it is ok to target Muslim communities in a public way because all Islamic terrorists are Muslims, why is it not ok to target men in a public way when all rapists are men?

[Burney]

That's deflection, Burney. What you say is accurate but not material to the point I made.

If it is ok to target Muslim communities in a public way because all Islamic terrorists are Muslims, why is it not ok to target men in a public way when all rapists are men?

Well if by 'target' you mean 'treat as potential suspects until proved otherwise' it's fine by me on both counts. I'm happy to rule myself out of a rape enquiry any time you like, thanks and wouldn't feel stigmatised at all.

[World's End Stella]

Well if by 'target' you mean 'treat as potential suspects until proved otherwise' it's fine by me on both counts. I'm happy to rule myself out of a rape enquiry any time you like, thanks and wouldn't feel stigmatised at all.

So you would have worn the pink ribbon?

[Monty92]

So, if the government required all heterosexual men to attend rape awareness courses your attitude would be 'well, people of my sex and sexual orientation are almost entirely responsible for rape so it really makes sense for me to attend the course so that we can understand why men rape women and work with the authorities to try and eliminate it'.

Yeah, course you would.

If Berni had advocated all muslims having to attend mandatory terrorist awareness courses, this would be a good point

[World's End Stella]

If Berni had advocated all muslims having to attend mandatory terrorist awareness courses, this would be a good point

Or if he had suggested that targeting communities as a whole instead of individuals within those communities when attempting to address an issue. In that case it would also be a good point.

Consider the concept, not necessarily the implementation, Monty.

[Burney]

Or if he had suggested that targeting communities as a whole instead of individuals within those communities when attempting to address an issue. In that case it would also be a good point.

Consider the concept, not necessarily the implementation, Monty.

Individuals are to communities as fish are to water. If you're trying to catch a fish, you have to first 'target' the water.