Lordy. but there's some whining going on about yesterday's Brexit vote.

[Burney]

I'm sure there were people like you in Czechoslovakia, 1937. Ancient Rome, 475 AD. Just chillin while your country goes to hell. And you never pay a price. The Visigoths come strolling in and you are waving the Visigothic flag. Quislings, enemies of the national will, the blood and the soil.



Just messing with you man, what the hell do I care.

You clearly understand the square root of fûck all about the issue, though. I'm mystified as to why you keep banging on about it.

[eastgermanautos]

You clearly understand the square root of fûck all about the issue, though. I'm mystified as to why you keep banging on about it.

Oh, I understand well enough. It's not hard to understand, even for me. Nations make bad decisions. The Venetian Empire back in the day had grown strong as a result of controlling Mediterranean sea-going commerce. Then they decided to to become embroiled in wars going on in Italy proper. They did not secure good results, were weakened, and meantime did not have enough capital to ensure their continued preeminence in the Mediterranean. Then those wily Portuguese found the trade route around Africa and there was Venice, fvcked.

You seem to have forgotten that England was not rising in the world pre-EU. The EU allowed London to become a center of banking. You abandon the EU because of some sh!tkickers out in the countryside not liking nonwhite people, and now you're not in a good position going forward.

Sad!

[Burney]

Oh, I understand well enough. It's not hard to understand, even for me. Nations make bad decisions. The Venetian Empire back in the day had grown strong as a result of controlling Mediterranean sea-going commerce. Then they decided to to become embroiled in wars going on in Italy proper. They did not secure good results, were weakened, and meantime did not have enough capital to ensure their continued preeminence in the Mediterranean. Then those wily Portuguese found the trade route around Africa and there was Venice, fvcked.

You seem to have forgotten that England was not rising in the world pre-EU. The EU allowed London to become a center of banking. You abandon the EU because of some sh!tkickers out in the countryside not liking nonwhite people, and now you're not in a good position going forward.

Sad!

London was a - indeed the - centre of banking long before the EU and will continue to be long after, so don't worry your pretty little head about that. Your suggestion that without the EU we couldn't have been rather gives the lie to any suggestion that you have any historical understanding whatsoever, though.

You seem to have picked up the utterly bullshît received idea that we left the EU because racism. I'm guessing maybe you read one -maybe two - op-eds in The Guardian or the Washington Post to get that impression. If that is the level of your understanding, I don't have the time or the inclination to disabuse you of your idiotic notion. Try actually finding something out about the EU, how it works and why levels of support for it are currently as low as they are among its citizens and then come back to me.

[eastgermanautos]

London was a - indeed the - centre of banking long before the EU and will continue to be long after, so don't worry your pretty little head about that. Your suggestion that without the EU we couldn't have been rather gives the lie to any suggestion that you have any historical understanding whatsoever, though.

You seem to have picked up the utterly bullshît received idea that we left the EU because racism. I'm guessing maybe you read one -maybe two - op-eds in The Guardian or the Washington Post to get that impression. If that is the level of your understanding, I don't have the time or the inclination to disabuse you of your idiotic notion. Try actually finding something out about the EU, how it works and why levels of support for it are currently as low as they are among its citizens and then come back to me.

There's a parallel conversation about Trump. People point to the rust belt -- Michigan, failing factories, etc. And I agree that Obama could be annoyingly effete. He couldn't hang with some dudes in Detroit or Ohio. But Trump *was elected because people had allowed themselves to believe a lot of b*ll**** about Obama and "liberals." The fact of Obama being a colored fella meant that racism played a huge role. Well, look, you don't really have nonwhite politicians, at least not from what I've seen. So that's different. On the other hand, the threat of the alien is much more proximate. They're pretty damn close to you, all those Middle Easterners. It's just a couple pieces of the puzzle but I don't doubt seriously that racism played a massive part.

You have some disagreements with the EU, but none so great, I'm sure, that you had to blow the whole thing up. You just let it happen, slipsliding away...

Don't get me wrong, I like England. It's my background, come to that. But I prefer the England of Donne to what you have now.

[redgunamo]

There's a parallel conversation about Trump. People point to the rust belt -- Michigan, failing factories, etc. And I agree that Obama could be annoyingly effete. He couldn't hang with some dudes in Detroit or Ohio. But Trump *was elected because people had allowed themselves to believe a lot of b*ll**** about Obama and "liberals." The fact of Obama being a colored fella meant that racism played a huge role. Well, look, you don't really have nonwhite politicians, at least not from what I've seen. So that's different. On the other hand, the threat of the alien is much more proximate. They're pretty damn close to you, all those Middle Easterners. It's just a couple pieces of the puzzle but I don't doubt seriously that racism played a massive part.

You have some disagreements with the EU, but none so great, I'm sure, that you had to blow the whole thing up. You just let it happen, slipsliding away...

Don't get me wrong, I like England. It's my background, come to that. But I prefer the England of Donne to what you have now.

Nonsense, I'm afraid. President Obama is Ivy League, same as President Bush is. This idea you've had Flavor Flav in charge for the last eight years is pure fantasy.

[eastgermanautos]

Nonsense, I'm afraid. President Obama is Ivy League, same as President Bush is. This idea you've had Flavor Flav in charge for the last eight years is pure fantasy.

To the average American white person he is totally Flava Fav. Or, as they would say, he's "uppity." It's more that they see him as a chosen tool of a cynical, jobstealing liberal elite. The said elite selected him, like the Antichrist, to run amok. End of Days, my friend, end of days.

[Burney]

There's a parallel conversation about Trump. People point to the rust belt -- Michigan, failing factories, etc. And I agree that Obama could be annoyingly effete. He couldn't hang with some dudes in Detroit or Ohio. But Trump *was elected because people had allowed themselves to believe a lot of b*ll**** about Obama and "liberals." The fact of Obama being a colored fella meant that racism played a huge role. Well, look, you don't really have nonwhite politicians, at least not from what I've seen. So that's different. On the other hand, the threat of the alien is much more proximate. They're pretty damn close to you, all those Middle Easterners. It's just a couple pieces of the puzzle but I don't doubt seriously that racism played a massive part.

You have some disagreements with the EU, but none so great, I'm sure, that you had to blow the whole thing up. You just let it happen, slipsliding away...

Don't get me wrong, I like England. It's my background, come to that. But I prefer the England of Donne to what you have now.

Yes, we don't have non-white politicians. Apart from the Mayor of London, various cabinet and shadow cabinet ministers

The main issue was actually democracy and always has been - long before the various migration crises. The EU is a profoundly anti-democratic organisation that rules by technocratic diktat and whose explicit (it's actually written on the wall in Strasbourg) intention is the dismantling of the nation state in favour of a European superstate ruled from Brussels. Its parliament is an unrepresentative rubber-stamping body rendered impotent by its sheer diversity, which means it can never provide meaningful opposition to the unelected, unaccountable Commission, which is the only body that can make law. Nobody who calls themselves a democrat can possibly defend that situation and no American would dream of allowing themselves to be governed in that way, so please spare me the finger wagging.
'So why leave? Why not try and reform it?', I hear you ask. That is literally what we have been trying to do for 40-odd years. No dice. The goal of 'ever-closer union' is paramount and the Brussels juggernaut keeps on rolling. When Cameron went to the EU before the referendum trying to get some concessions that might help him win it, he got nothing because the EU is simply too inflexible even when it meant the possibility of losing a key member state and its second biggest net contributor. As a result, the referendum was lost - because the EU isn't going to change.
Are there concerns about immigration? Of course. And they're pretty justified. If you think mass immigration from the Middle East is a good plan, look at what's happening in Germany and Sweden, who have let huge numbers in. Does looking at that and saying 'no thanks' make one a racist? Equally, there's the migration from within the EU, which allowed a massive influx of people from Eastern Europe into the country a few years back. That has been positive for the likes of me, who can now get cheap plumbers, cleaners and decorators, but not so much for people lower down the scale who feel their chances of employment or access to public services are being negatively affected by this influx. Does resenting that make them racist?
Be very careful with the accusation of racism. Once you apply it to any issue that might even tangentially relate to race, it starts to lose its meaning.

[eastgermanautos]

Yes, we don't have non-white politicians. Apart from the Mayor of London, various cabinet and shadow cabinet ministers

The main issue was actually democracy and always has been - long before the various migration crises. The EU is a profoundly anti-democratic organisation that rules by technocratic diktat and whose explicit (it's actually written on the wall in Strasbourg) intention is the dismantling of the nation state in favour of a European superstate ruled from Brussels. Its parliament is an unrepresentative rubber-stamping body rendered impotent by its sheer diversity, which means it can never provide meaningful opposition to the unelected, unaccountable Commission, which is the only body that can make law. Nobody who calls themselves a democrat can possibly defend that situation and no American would dream of allowing themselves to be governed in that way, so please spare me the finger wagging.
'So why leave? Why not try and reform it?', I hear you ask. That is literally what we have been trying to do for 40-odd years. No dice. The goal of 'ever-closer union' is paramount and the Brussels juggernaut keeps on rolling. When Cameron went to the EU before the referendum trying to get some concessions that might help him win it, he got nothing because the EU is simply too inflexible even when it meant the possibility of losing a key member state and its second biggest net contributor. As a result, the referendum was lost - because the EU isn't going to change.
Are there concerns about immigration? Of course. And they're pretty justified. If you think mass immigration from the Middle East is a good plan, look at what's happening in Germany and Sweden, who have let huge numbers in. Does looking at that and saying 'no thanks' make one a racist? Equally, there's the migration from within the EU, which allowed a massive influx of people from Eastern Europe into the country a few years back. That has been positive for the likes of me, who can now get cheap plumbers, cleaners and decorators, but not so much for people lower down the scale who feel their chances of employment or access to public services are being negatively affected by this influx. Does resenting that make them racist?
Be very careful with the accusation of racism. Once you apply it to any issue that might even tangentially relate to race, it starts to lose its meaning.

I concede your point about all those Eastern Europeans. The Poles and god knows who else. But I don't think Germany is making a mistake absorbing significant numbers of immigrants. Other countries, particularly France and Italy, maybe. But Germany has been looking for an opportunity to behave magnanimously for the past 70 years, and at last they have it. Having the moral high ground is very important to a country. You lose a *lot if you can't maintain it. America will be fine, probably, unless we start WW3. We gained a lot of points with the saintly Obama. But Germany *really needs to show its good side. Turn the page, floss a little bit, kick some ass. I felt it when I was in Berlin a few days ago. And lo, the Germans want to give my film a bunch of money. It's favorable for the arts, even if my film hardly qualifies as that.

All right, I'm off to bed. Have to be up in an hour and a half.

[redgunamo]

I concede your point about all those Eastern Europeans. The Poles and god knows who else. But I don't think Germany is making a mistake absorbing significant numbers of immigrants. Other countries, particularly France and Italy, maybe. But Germany has been looking for an opportunity to behave magnanimously for the past 70 years, and at last they have it. Having the moral high ground is very important to a country. You lose a *lot if you can't maintain it. America will be fine, probably, unless we start WW3. We gained a lot of points with the saintly Obama. But Germany *really needs to show its good side. Turn the page, floss a little bit, kick some ass. I felt it when I was in Berlin a few days ago. And lo, the Germans want to give my film a bunch of money. It's favorable for the arts, even if my film hardly qualifies as that.

All right, I'm off to bed. Have to be up in an hour and a half.

Nothing magnanimous about it; their birth rate has fallen off a cliff lately, same as Italy, France and the rest of the "wealthy" west. It's all homos and Milchbubis and women's lib nowadays. They *need* people.

Sleep well

[redgunamo]

Oh, I understand well enough. It's not hard to understand, even for me. Nations make bad decisions. The Venetian Empire back in the day had grown strong as a result of controlling Mediterranean sea-going commerce. Then they decided to to become embroiled in wars going on in Italy proper. They did not secure good results, were weakened, and meantime did not have enough capital to ensure their continued preeminence in the Mediterranean. Then those wily Portuguese found the trade route around Africa and there was Venice, fvcked.

You seem to have forgotten that England was not rising in the world pre-EU. The EU allowed London to become a center of banking. You abandon the EU because of some sh!tkickers out in the countryside not liking nonwhite people, and now you're not in a good position going forward.

Sad!

Hoy! IAHYK, e.