things are pretty sad these days

[WES]

Yup. Even I can see that, FFS. That game when him, Alexis and Santi ripped ManU to shreds 3-0. That goal where he left 2 of them on their arses. The flicked, kung-fu volley to put OG through. The fact that he had something like 17 assists by new year despite not having a pacy CF who'd have been even better with through-balls. {Though OG's ability in the air at set pieces did make up for it.}

I liked Ozil. He did those flicks and passes that made me happy.Can't really remember many last season. Laca had 3 assists in a 3 nil which contained at least one nice flick - might have been 2 or 3.

Don't remember any eye of the needle passes.

Yes but sadly for Mesut there's more to playing football than fliicks and eye of the needle passes. You may have noticed GG that consecutive managers had no place for him in the team and Unai seems to be doing rather well now, as is Arteta in my view.

Meanwhile, Mesut is trying to find a job in whichever Turkish team is desperate enough to offer him one. Sort of like Aaron Ramsey.

No one would deny Ozil's talent, but it's ridiculous to suggest there weren't issues with him. If there hadn't been he'd still be with us, or more likely still with Real Madrid.

[Luis Anaconda]

Yes but sadly for Mesut there's more to playing football than fliicks and eye of the needle passes. You may have noticed GG that consecutive managers had no place for him in the team and Unai seems to be doing rather well now, as is Arteta in my view.

Meanwhile, Mesut is trying to find a job in whichever Turkish team is desperate enough to offer him one. Sort of like Aaron Ramsey.

No one would deny Ozil's talent, but it's ridiculous to suggest there weren't issues with him. If there hadn't been he'd still be with us, or more likely still with Real Madrid.

I mean what a ridiculous thing to say - Özil created chance after chance after chance (stats back it up but I wouldn't want to bore you). ie he actually did his ****ing job. To suggest otherwise is just wrong. Yes it ended badly and different managers have different ideas but he was undoubtedly a success for the first few seasons

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

I mean what a ridiculous thing to say - Özil created chance after chance after chance (stats back it up but I wouldn't want to bore you). ie he actually did his ****ing job. To suggest otherwise is just wrong. Yes it ended badly and different managers have different ideas but he was undoubtedly a success for the first few seasons

Yes, and lots of those chances came from flicks and perfectly-weighted passes, often with him giving the eyes one way before passing it the other.

Basically, it went wrong when Santi got injured and Alexis was swapped with Mhikki so the other two he played triangles with weren't there.

If we could have signed Auba at the start of that season instead of Laca {thus keeping OG as plan B} then we'd have played better at the start of that year and might have kept Alexis. If Santi hadn't been deaded we'd have been close to a decent team.

But imagine how many Ozil could have made with Auba to chase his through balls as well as OG to head in his set pieces.

[WES]

I mean what a ridiculous thing to say - Özil created chance after chance after chance (stats back it up but I wouldn't want to bore you). ie he actually did his ****ing job. To suggest otherwise is just wrong. Yes it ended badly and different managers have different ideas but he was undoubtedly a success for the first few seasons

Which is the ridiculous part, exactly? The fact that there is more to football than flicks? Or that you can't deny his talent? Or that there were issues with him?

I'm struggling to see where anything I posted is contradicted by anything you posted.

He did what was asked of him under Wenger, under different managers who asked him to play in a different way he clearly struggled.

but are you actually saying that no one could possibly deny his greatness despite the fact that Madrid sold him to us and that neither Emery or Arteta wanted him in the team? And that he's currently struggling to find a team in Turkey that will take him despite the fact that he's only 33 years old? Does that *really* sound like someone who's greatness cannot be denied?

[Luis Anaconda]

Which is the ridiculous part, exactly? The fact that there is more to football than flicks? Or that you can't deny his talent? Or that there were issues with him?

I'm struggling to see where anything I posted is contradicted by anything you posted.

He did what was asked of him under Wenger, under different managers who asked him to play in a different way he clearly struggled.

but are you actually saying that no one could possibly deny his greatness despite the fact that Madrid sold him to us and that neither Emery or Arteta wanted him in the team? And that he's currently struggling to find a team in Turkey that will take him despite the fact that he's only 33 years old? Does that *really* sound like someone who's greatness cannot be denied?

Apologies if I am wrong but you seem to reduce his talents to flicks, it was obviously much more than that.
Not sure the fact that Madrid let him go is quite the argument you think it is, though. Henry was released by Juventus, Bergkamp by Inter and Vieira AC Milan. Can't be greats, then? Chelsea let De Bruyne and Salah go. Sometimes players don't fit into plans. He's clearly drifted the last few years and I won't deny that but at his (long) peak he was one of the best in the world.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Apologies if I am wrong but you seem to reduce his talents to flicks, it was obviously much more than that.
Not sure the fact that Madrid let him go is quite the argument you think it is, though. Henry was released by Juventus, Bergkamp by Inter and Vieira AC Milan. Can't be greats, then? Chelsea let De Bruyne and Salah go. Sometimes players don't fit into plans. He's clearly drifted the last few years and I won't deny that but at his (long) peak he was one of the best in the world.

TBF to Wes, it was me talking about flicks and eye of the needle passes, cos I like them. Though of course there's more to Ozil than that. He made far more goals with corners and FKs because his delivery was so good than he did with those flicks and passes I adore.

Btw, do you think it's silly not to have prioritised a new MF after Jesus? Given ESR doesn't seem to be first choice, I dunno why we got Vieirra instead of a GX upgrade. If we get one now after signing Zin, then I'll be happy.

But after being in the CL for 20 years, as soon as we signed GX, we dropped out. That's under 3 different managers.

6 seasons. Playing with Ozil and Alexis, or with Partey and Odin and we still don't get top 4.

He's the one common denominator to the six seasons of shîte. He isn't top 4 quality.

[Luis Anaconda]

TBF to Wes, it was me talking about flicks and eye of the needle passes, cos I like them. Though of course there's more to Ozil than that. He made far more goals with corners and FKs because his delivery was so good than he did with those flicks and passes I adore.

Btw, do you think it's silly not to have prioritised a new MF after Jesus? Given ESR doesn't seem to be first choice, I dunno why we got Vieirra instead of a GX upgrade. If we get one now after signing Zin, then I'll be happy.

But after being in the CL for 20 years, as soon as we signed GX, we dropped out. That's under 3 different managers.

6 seasons. Playing with Ozil and Alexis, or with Partey and Odin and we still don't get top 4.

He's the one common denominator to the six seasons of shîte. He isn't top 4 quality.

I think it is a huge leap to see Granit as the reason we haven't qualified for the Champions League in so long.

Last season was probably the first he played in a proper position for him and our record when he played with Partey was fantastic.

Of course, we can upgrade - and it is possible that is where Arteta wants to play Zinchenko. Not sure Tielemans is the panacea people seem to think he is

[PSRB]

I think it is a huge leap to see Granit as the reason we haven't qualified for the Champions League in so long.

Last season was probably the first he played in a proper position for him and our record when he played with Partey was fantastic.

Of course, we can upgrade - and it is possible that is where Arteta wants to play Zinchenko. Not sure Tielemans is the panacea people seem to think he is

Spot on. GX was very good alongside TP

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

I think it is a huge leap to see Granit as the reason we haven't qualified for the Champions League in so long.

Last season was probably the first he played in a proper position for him and our record when he played with Partey was fantastic.

Of course, we can upgrade - and it is possible that is where Arteta wants to play Zinchenko. Not sure Tielemans is the panacea people seem to think he is

I dunno is Youri is the panacea, I just think having a first change MF who's better than Mo, Sambi et al is needed.

Obviously, I'm not blaming GX for the last 6 years of failure. If Santi hadn't got injured, if Auba had signed instead of Laca so we could have kept Olly G for a back up and plan B, if we hadn't had to swap Alexis for Mhikki etc.

But I saw a stat saying that points per game when TP5 was playing last year would have got us 3rd. Without him, it was 5th or something.

I just with there was a way of making Odin and ESR work together in a 4-1-4-1 like when we got to the CL final.

I loved that formation. A DM, 4 creatives with goal threat and a lone genius striker.

ESR needs to be playing week in, week out. It worked for Saka, then Gabby M. Look what he did to the Sperz last winter.

[WES]

Apologies if I am wrong but you seem to reduce his talents to flicks, it was obviously much more than that.
Not sure the fact that Madrid let him go is quite the argument you think it is, though. Henry was released by Juventus, Bergkamp by Inter and Vieira AC Milan. Can't be greats, then? Chelsea let De Bruyne and Salah go. Sometimes players don't fit into plans. He's clearly drifted the last few years and I won't deny that but at his (long) peak he was one of the best in the world.

I know you aren't obtuse so you *must* be being deliberately obtuse. Henry/Bergkamp and Vieira being released by those clubs at those points in their careers was the same as Madrid selling us Ozil at the age of 25? Seriously?

And I didn't reduce him to just flicks, I said you couldn't deny his talent but there were issues with him.

But this is boring, there is a segment of AWIMB that simply won't accept anything other than that he was a great player for us, and you belong in that segment. I'll give you credit though, at least you haven't mentioned his movement off the ball