It takes a special talent

[Peter]

Amused me yesterday at the end of play, Sky trying to say the West Indies had had a decent day because they dropped catches, so therefore created chances and England were 350 odd for 5 and restricted them to just the 416 Straw clutching

It is desperately dull and I guess they have to do their best to make it seem like a contest. Really doesn't help with planning ahead. I am almost thinking that the runs and wickets are pretty meaningless.

I still cant see us even being competitive in Australia next year.

[Peter]

Agree about Wood. Test ave of 16 isn't too bad. But if we're dropping Jimmy to plan for the Ashes, Woakes at home averages 33 with bat and 22 with ball at home but 22 and 52 away.

Jofra's FC average of 23 is under 8 in tests.

Atkinson has a FC ave of 20 with 3 50s in 27 innings, but cf Jofra. Ganpati willing I'm wrong but I doubt he'll average 20 in Aus.

So having Wood at 8 averaging 16 and then 9-10-Jack scoring sod all isn't ideal.

Now Stokes is back, we really could do with another all-rounder. If only we could find an Imran Khan.....

Like we all have wk-batsmen, you really want a spinner who can bat at 8. Makes such a difference.

We are in a similar cycle ere to the football. Ahead of every Ashes tour we talk about developing a new bowling attack and then gradually, over the year inbetween, the fast bowlers get injured or lose form and we rock up in Australia with four right arm seam/ swing bowlers coming in at 84 mph. Every time

Scoring runs over there is meaningless. We simply cannot take 20 wickets on those pitches.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

We are in a similar cycle ere to the football. Ahead of every Ashes tour we talk about developing a new bowling attack and then gradually, over the year inbetween, the fast bowlers get injured or lose form and we rock up in Australia with four right arm seam/ swing bowlers coming in at 84 mph. Every time

Scoring runs over there is meaningless. We simply cannot take 20 wickets on those pitches.

Agreed. But two points:

1. After me sort of implying we shouldn't pick a spinner who can't bat in the lower middle order, Bash got his first wicket and would have had a second had they reviewed the LBW. {Everyone except him thought it was going down leg, incl TMS, until they saw the ball tracking 2-3 mins later.}

2. A couple of years ago in The Times, Steve James wrote about how a left arm seamer knocks you out of your rhythm. He said he {and loads of others} scored a ton in a county match on a road, but when a left armer came on with him well set on 100+, he was out next over to the right-armer who'd been unthreatening 'till then cos he'd had to adjust his angles.

He showed the averages of Jimmy and Broad when they played with Sam Curran. Even though SC's ave himself wasn't great, JA and SB's averages dropped by quite a bit.

If Stokes can bowl all match again, given Sam Curran's a lefty who can bat a bit, could you not suggest that he could play either as a fifth seamer on pitches you don't reckon'll spin much or as the 4th quick if you have a spinner who can hold the end up, allowing you to rotate say Wood, Jofra, Stokes and Curran when the ball gets old?

[Peter]

Agreed. But two points:

1. After me sort of implying we shouldn't pick a spinner who can't bat in the lower middle order, Bash got his first wicket and would have had a second had they reviewed the LBW. {Everyone except him thought it was going down leg, incl TMS, until they saw the ball tracking 2-3 mins later.}

2. A couple of years ago in The Times, Steve James wrote about how a left arm seamer knocks you out of your rhythm. He said he {and loads of others} scored a ton in a county match on a road, but when a left armer came on with him well set on 100+, he was out next over to the right-armer who'd been unthreatening 'till then cos he'd had to adjust his angles.

He showed the averages of Jimmy and Broad when they played with Sam Curran. Even though SC's ave himself wasn't great, JA and SB's averages dropped by quite a bit.

If Stokes can bowl all match again, given Sam Curran's a lefty who can bat a bit, could you not suggest that he could play either as a fifth seamer on pitches you don't reckon'll spin much or as the 4th quick if you have a spinner who can hold the end up, allowing you to rotate say Wood, Jofra, Stokes and Curran when the ball gets old?

Hard for me to say because I always loved facing left armers. Opening the stance felt natural and I could always pick length perfectly. But I have seen plenty of other people struggle with it.

I think it depends on the attack we take with us. Normally it is preferable to have a spinner and I am not overly worried about how well they bat. I am more worried about whether they are any good as a bowler. The only time I get annoyed is when we pick a spinner who is no better than Joe Root.

I don't mind having four right arm seamers as long as they give you some variety in style and pace.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Hard for me to say because I always loved facing left armers. Opening the stance felt natural and I could always pick length perfectly. But I have seen plenty of other people struggle with it.

I think it depends on the attack we take with us. Normally it is preferable to have a spinner and I am not overly worried about how well they bat. I am more worried about whether they are any good as a bowler. The only time I get annoyed is when we pick a spinner who is no better than Joe Root.

I don't mind having four right arm seamers as long as they give you some variety in style and pace.

Totally agree about Root. It's pointless when we see him come on and take more wickets and/or bowl more economically than our nominated spinner.

I know that Moeen wasn't as good as Swann etc but when we had him scoring tons from no.8 that was so helpful.

But after seeing those stats about right-armers averages coming down when there's a lefty in the attack, I do wish we had one {especially if they could bat a bit.}

If only Curran's bowling average was 27-28 instead of 35. Maybe we should allow all tall, left-handed teenagers to do a GCSE in fast bowling. They might prefer it to Religious Studies and if we can just find one every decade we'd be sorted.

{Do you remember that Pakistani about 20 years ago who dreamed of having a 'Stani Gilchrist so he tried to make all 7 of his sons into wk-batsmen? Akmal? Just checked - Bar-bar-bar, Bar-Bar-Azam's his cousin. And one of his brother's is married to Abdul Qadir's daughter.}