Ladies and gentlemen. If you were looking for a way to fight back

[Viva Prat Vegas]

"I think there's a business opportunity selling bespoke chairs to Professors. Ones with built-in remote controls and fridges in the handles where they can keep their beer. Classy, like."

Sounds inspired by that magic chair Jimmy Savile occupied when fixing things
Ash tray dispenser if you press one button
If you press another , his cigar pops out

[Burney]

Sounds inspired by that magic chair Jimmy Savile occupied when fixing things
Ash tray dispenser if you press one button
If you press another , his cigar pops out

This one? Interestingly, it was velour. Given his proclivities, I'd have thought he'd have wanted something a bit more wipe-clean.

article-2180953-144A1A49000005DC-701_634x531.jpg

[Ash]

Anyone working for someone else who is frstrated that they don't own these 'means of production' is at liberty to go and work for themselves, aren't they? A self-employed window cleaner owns his means of production, doesn't he?

Petit-bourgs innit. Seperate class. And of course the Amazon worker is free to go and set up his own global distribution company, buy the Washington Post and take a $600m contract with the CIA, but MoP is a possible distraction. Class lines do exist, but not how we used to see them. I will expand on this.

[SWv2]

I think there's a business opportunity selling bespoke chairs to Professors. Ones with built-in remote controls and fridges in the handles where they can keep their beer. Classy, like.

Prof'll Fix It.

[Viva Prat Vegas]

That's the one Yes
Looking at the base it looks as if it can rotate fully
I think Jim'll did use protective sheets to cover the bedroom furniture and clothing belonging to his late Mother which in a diversion from the narrative he kept untouched after she passed

[Burney]

That's the one Yes
Looking at the base it looks as if it can rotate fully
I think Jim'll did use protective sheets to cover the bedroom furniture and clothing belonging to his late Mother which in a diversion from the narrative he kept untouched after she passed

It was up for auction. I've no idea who would want to buy such a thing.

[Ash]

The concept of class is only meaningful if people feel its gradations applies to them, though. People don't feel like that anymore. Tell a family with a four-bedroom house, two new cars, foreign holidays and nice, white-collar jobs which provide a comfortable standard of living that they are in fact the new proletariat because they don't own the means of production and they will - not unreasonably - tell you to fück off.

In short, the concept of 'class' as understood by Marx is hopelessly out of date.

But tell them that their vote in the referendum needs to be over-ruled because the experts say so, and the new class divisions become clearer. Tell them that they are lesser humans because they are not an approved minority and they may become politicised. The ruling class, with its various components in finance, politics, media, capital, entertainment, academia stands for itself, and uses its power to increase its influence and consolidate that power. The ordinary people as a whole with little money or power, even if they have a new car that they are snared in debt to own, (and call them what class you will) have a vote, and they have numbers. There is a contemporary class struggle right there.

[Burney]

But tell them that their vote in the referendum needs to be over-ruled because the experts say so, and the new class divisions become clearer. Tell them that they are lesser humans because they are not an approved minority and they may become politicised. The ruling class, with its various components in finance, politics, media, capital, entertainment, academia stands for itself, and uses its power to increase its influence and consolidate that power. The ordinary people as a whole with little money or power, even if they have a new car that they are snared in debt to own, (and call them what class you will) have a vote, and they have numbers. There is a contemporary class struggle right there.

Yes, but again you need to define your terms. Much of what you call 'the ruling class' these days is - to my mind and many others - very much of the left and in some instances explicitly left-wing. People no longer feel oppressed by aristos and industrialists, they feel oppressed by a media/academic/entertainment/civil service and political class most of whom would probably identify as left-wing.

This is the thing: the left is the new ruling class, which renders Marxist notions of its overthrow outdated.

[Ash]

Yes, but again you need to define your terms. Much of what you call 'the ruling class' these days is - to my mind and many others - very much of the left and in some instances explicitly left-wing. People no longer feel oppressed by aristos and industrialists, they feel oppressed by a media/academic/entertainment/civil service and political class most of whom would probably identify as left-wing.

This is the thing: the left is the new ruling class, which renders Marxist notions of its overthrow outdated.

I agree, the Fake Left is now the ruling class. Historical Materialism is the understanding that at any point in history there will be a struggle between classes. Not that class struggle was always going to be the traditional Labour v Capital. The current class struggle is national sovereignty v globalism. Though it is mainly the 'deplorable' forces of labour who favour the former, and the owners of capital (and I don't mean a fùcking ladder and a piece of cloth) who are for the latter.

I was reading the other day (can't remember where) that Blair's real reason for racking up immigration was not to "rub the right's nose in diversity" but to push down labour costs.

[Burney]

I agree, the Fake Left is now the ruling class. Historical Materialism is the understanding that at any point in history there will be a struggle between classes. Not that class struggle was always going to be the traditional Labour v Capital. The current class struggle is national sovereignty v globalism. Though it is mainly the 'deplorable' forces of labour who favour the former, and the owners of capital (and I don't mean a fùcking ladder and a piece of cloth) who are for the latter.

I was reading the other day (can't remember where) that Blair's real reason for racking up immigration was not to "rub the right's nose in diversity" but to push down labour costs.

I agree with all your points about the battle lines, but think the attempt to frame them within the context of Marxism isn't a good fit. For instance, nationalism was always anathema to the classical Marxist because it worked directly in opposition to the idea of internationalism. However, it is now a flag around which the culturally and socially diverse strands who oppose a globalist vision can rally. To frame that as a purely class issue is rather simplistic.

All in all, I think it's now simply too fragmented and diverse a social and political picture to apply any monolithic political framework to it.