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Thread: The Levellers were fantastic. Bow Bow i really needed that after last week.

  1. #11

    We'll see on that one. I wonder whether thirteen years in the political wilderness might have taught

    the right wing of the tory party a lesson about not getting complacent and disappearing up its own arse. The Conservative party isn't used to that sort of thing and the memory of having its clothes so effectively stolen by Blair is still pretty raw.

    Your point about belief is an interesting one, actually. I have been pointing out to everyone who keeps coming up to me with the 'shy tory' narrative that they're missing the point entirely. The point is that voting tory is not an ideological position for most people, but a pragmatic choice. Thus, plenty of people will vote tory without ever identifying as tories themselves, whereas Labour voters tend to identify as such on an ideological level. The problem being, of course, that until voting Labour is a similarly pragmatic choice for the voter, they will remain out of office.

  2. #12

    Nod This is why Boris is so well-loved. He isn't trying to be a man of the people, which

    ironically makes him much more a man of the people than those who do.

  3. #13

    Well I can see their point about me, but what have they got against Sir C?

    He's a lovely chap: generous, charming, kind to animals and sentimental to a fault. I mean there's the unfortunate Bruce Springsteen business, but we all have our crosses to bear.


  4. #14

    And you are precisely correct. The conservstive party is a party of government, not of politics

    It believes only in sound, sensible government and the protection of institutions from rampant silliness or ghastly notions such as progress.

    The strike against conservstives is obviously that they dont believe in anything and in a political sense this is true. Aside from vague notions of small government, self reliance and hatred of the poor (i just put that one in for a laugh) they dont. What they do is produce a clear message that the average voter can understand and accept. Until labour do this they will remain in opposition.

    Blair understood this but crucially he also understood how to craft the message. We hsve five years to find a team who can do the same.

    I am going to get dragged into this, i just know it. Maybe it is time.....

  5. #15

    He doesnt buy fairtrade cocaine.

    Tantamount to murder, b.

  6. #16

    Why, b. I don't quite know what to say. I'm deeply moved.

    Such compliments from a gentleman of your intellect, erudition and standing within the community... I'm overwhelmed, soul.

  7. #17

    I don't see why voting for Labour can't be a pragmatic choice for those who see their

    interests best served by it. There seems to be this theory going round that all labour voters are either media luvvies (the so-called 'metropolitan elite') or strident ideologues.

  8. #18

    Yes. The Conservatives also benefit from the fact that the British tend to be somewhat dubious about

    ideology - at least when it is expressed as such. The trick is to be ideological whilst not frightening the horses.

    That said, of course, the irony is that Mrs T was probably the most ideologically-driven Prime Minister this country has had since Gladstone.

  9. #19

    It can, that is the point. And under blair it was. Of course, most of it is a conjuring trick

    With a lot of people it isnt even about the amount of tax you take fromthem as the difference is often minimal. It is about trust, identification and the choices you make.

    I am actuslly slightly worse off under the tories and i am hard working, on a decent wage, dont claim any benefits. I do exactly what they claim they want yet they stick it to me.

    Certsin people around me are in the same situation but they firmly believe they are personally better off even when it is obvious they are not. That is the magic pf the conservstive party.

  10. #20

    Yes, contrary to popular belief, life is actually a far simpler business

    if you have money. This popular belief is, of course, mostly proposed by rich folk in order to stop the poor from stealing their cars.

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