Hmmm. Hard to know where to start with the irony of The Guardian publishing a piece

[Peter]

Yes, but what do you do about all the guns that are going to continue to be in people's hands? Because if you think people will simply hand them back (assuming you can get past the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution - which you can't) you're wrong.

You then have the prospect of a country absolutely packed with illegal guns and a large part of the otherwise law-abiding population criminalised overnight.

You cant take the guns but you can make it illegal to carry them.

[Ash]

You cant take the guns but you can make it illegal to carry them.

First 9 months of 2017:
-11,572 gun deaths
-23,365 gun injuries
-271 mass shootings (more than four victims)
-1,508 unintentional shootings
-2,971 kids/teens shot

The country that believes it has the moral right to rule the world.

[Burney]

You cant take the guns but you can make it illegal to carry them.

Which will do absolutely nothing to stop someone who wants to kill large numbers of people, of course.

[Peter]

Which will do absolutely nothing to stop someone who wants to kill large numbers of people, of course.

Of course not. Just as making drugs illegal doesnt stop people taking them; just as making murder illegal doesnt stop it happening.

It would, however, mean the individual is breaking the law the moment he leaves the house with the weapons. It would also prevent many of the shootings that are accidental or circumstantial and that arise simply because people have guns on them when an incident occurs.

In the broader sense, it means people would not be routinely walking round with concealed weapons. I think that would be a good thing.

[Burney]

Of course not. Just as making drugs illegal doesnt stop people taking them; just as making murder illegal doesnt stop it happening.

It would, however, mean the individual is breaking the law the moment he leaves the house with the weapons. It would also prevent many of the shootings that are accidental or circumstantial and that arise simply because people have guns on them when an incident occurs.

In the broader sense, it means people would not be routinely walking round with concealed weapons. I think that would be a good thing.

I don’t disagree, but the fact remains that legally-held and concealed firearms really aren’t a very big problem. Most of America’s gun deaths involve domestics, street crime using illegal firearms, mass killings such as this one or accidents on private land. None of them would be notably affected by what you propose.

[Peter]

I don’t disagree, but the fact remains that legally-held and concealed firearms really aren’t a very big problem. Most of America’s gun deaths involve domestics, street crime using illegal firearms, mass killings such as this one or accidents on private land. None of them would be notably affected by what you propose.

It may not. The point would be to try and move away from this 'gun culture', if you can call it that.

If you look at it another way, they only kill each other with guns because everyone has got one. If they didnt have guns they would use something else. Either way, they are still going to kill each other.

We may be rightly proud of how few gun deaths we have here but people do still get killed. A ban on guns is good news for your knife salesman.....

[Burney]

It may not. The point would be to try and move away from this 'gun culture', if you can call it that.

If you look at it another way, they only kill each other with guns because everyone has got one. If they didnt have guns they would use something else. Either way, they are still going to kill each other.

We may be rightly proud of how few gun deaths we have here but people do still get killed. A ban on guns is good news for your knife salesman.....

I think this is akin to the argument that you'll change the UK's drinking culture by preventing people drinking on the street. You won't because such cultures really aren't that malleable. They will merely adapt.

Clearly America's gun laws fail miserably to acknowledge the fact that Americans want to kill one another in large numbers. That is their failing: they are inappropriate to their society from a public health perspective. I suspect things wouldn't be much different over here were we to have the same laws.

[SWv2]

I heard on the radio earlier that the killer dude had 40 guns/weapons to his name. An impressive figure I am sure you will agree.

Now I assume a fair number of these were illegal as surely to God it is not legal for a normal chap to own 40 guns?

[Sir C]

I think this is akin to the argument that you'll change the UK's drinking culture by preventing people drinking on the street. You won't because such cultures really aren't that malleable. They will merely adapt.

Clearly America's gun laws fail miserably to acknowledge the fact that Americans want to kill one another in large numbers. That is their failing: they are inappropriate to their society from a public health perspective. I suspect things wouldn't be much different over here were we to have the same laws.

Their problem is that they don't fight. They'll happily hurl insults at each other whilst crossing the road, but lack the masculine qualities of decent English gentlemen and the cojones to throw a punch. Instead, they bottle it all up until, eventually, the inevitable happens.

Wánkers to a man.

[Peter]

I think this is akin to the argument that you'll change the UK's drinking culture by preventing people drinking on the street. You won't because such cultures really aren't that malleable. They will merely adapt.

Clearly America's gun laws fail miserably to acknowledge the fact that Americans want to kill one another in large numbers. That is their failing: they are inappropriate to their society from a public health perspective. I suspect things wouldn't be much different over here were we to have the same laws.

We often make these arguments to suggest that laws wont make any difference because you cant change how people feel. You only have to change how they behave. So the seat belt law did work; banning smoking in pubs was enforced properly (even in Ireland) and people did eventually get used to decimalisation.

It doesnt change overnight but it does change. If there is a genuine homocidal tendency within the average american then it wont change that. After all, if you are willing to break the law by killing someone you are unlikely to be concerned at breaking the law by leaving house with a weapon.

As someone else said, americans dont want it. THey love their guns. I suppose it is none of our business really.