So with Rambo playing we scored 8 goals in abou 100 mins. Everyone says he's shíte..

[Billy Goat Sverige]

Quite a silly post really. Whether he's ****, brilliant, average, him simply being on the pitch when a goal is scored has no reflection on how well he is playing. Now if you want to go away and look at each goal and tell me how he had an impact on each goal then we can start talking.

[Pokster]

Quite a silly post really. Whether he's ****, brilliant, average, him simply being on the pitch when a goal is scored has no reflection on how well he is playing. Now if you want to go away and look at each goal and tell me how he had an impact on each goal then we can start talking.

Well he was involved in (at least) the second and 4th goal, but then the comments come down to what impact did he have in each

[Sir C]

Quite a silly post really. Whether he's ****, brilliant, average, him simply being on the pitch when a goal is scored has no reflection on how well he is playing. Now if you want to go away and look at each goal and tell me how he had an impact on each goal then we can start talking.

It's not necessarily about whether he is involved in the goals. It could easily be about how his presence is building the shape and the dynamic of the team, allowing others to create those chances. There is more to football that Opta stats.

[redgunamo]

I'm not sure Bergkamp is the same player if you take all his away. Or how about Messi or Ronaldo?

I don't like numbers and statistics but you can see for yourself why managers, coaches and scouts use them to help judge a player's effectiveness.

It's not necessarily about whether he is involved in the goals. It could easily be about how his presence is building the shape and the dynamic of the team, allowing others to create those chances. There is more to football that Opta stats.

[Sir C]

I'm not sure Bergkamp is the same player if you take all his away. Or how about Messi or Ronaldo?

I don't like numbers and statistics but you can see for yourself why managers, coaches and scouts use them to help judge a player's effectiveness.

Certainly, goals are important. Patrick Vieira scored 33 goals for us in 9 years - do you suppose he was picked every week because he scored 4 goals a season?

[redgunamo]

Certainly, goals are important. Patrick Vieira scored 33 goals for us in 9 years - do you suppose he was picked every week because he scored 4 goals a season?

Of course not. We didn't select him for that. We picked Henry and Bergkamp to score the goals. That was *their* job.

Reading that again though, I was more referring to the usefulness of football statistics in general, rather than Ramsey's performances in particular.

Sorry

[Sir C]

Of course not. We didn't select him for that. We picked Henry and Bergkamp to score the goals. That was *their* job.

Ozil seemed struck me as remarkably Bergkampesque last night.

He can't bend one into the top corner from 30 yeards, though

[redgunamo]

Ozil seemed struck me as remarkably Bergkampesque last night.

He can't bend one into the top corner from 30 yeards, though

Oh, I suppose he can. On his day.

You lose half the player he is if you judge him that way though. Unlike Dennis who *was* a proper goalscorer. And there's the rub

[Billy Goat Sverige]

It's not necessarily about whether he is involved in the goals. It could easily be about how his presence is building the shape and the dynamic of the team, allowing others to create those chances. There is more to football that Opta stats.

You're quite right. But in that case i'd say Xhaka has had more to do with it in the last two games than Ramsey.

[Sir C]

You're quite right. But in that case i'd say Xhaka has had more to do with it in the last two games than Ramsey.

You may be right, I only saw the games on TV so it's impossible to draw any conclusions about the shape and the tactics.