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Thread: The Levellers were fantastic. Bow Bow i really needed that after last week.

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  1. #1

    The Levellers were fantastic. Bow Bow i really needed that after last week.

    It was a strange old evening in colchester. There was music in the cafes at night and revolution in the air.

    Berni, Sir C, you have been warned


  2. #2

    Well today you can cheer yourself up by watching the two wings of the Labour party tearing lumps off

    each other.

    Seriously, though, are these chaps who keep proposing a shift further to the left as a way back to power *actually* mentally subnormal? I mean, the right wing of the Tory party may contain a fair number of headcases, but for sheer, pigheaded, delusional stupidity, the Labour left seems to have them beaten hands down.

    They put one in mind of a waiter who, on having food sent back for being too salty, then takes the food away, adds more salt and then wonders why the customer still isn't accepting it.

  3. #3

    They are cursed with belief, b. i suppose you could form the view that the wipeout in scotland

    Was about the lack of a clear anti austerity message but even this is a misunderstanding. There is a bg difference between policy and message. Policy may be left wong or not, but a message is either clear or it isnt. It wasnt and you cant win unless it is.

    I think six months of bickering is fine. The important thing os to get the leadership right and the message right.

    Nobody will remember this in five years time particularly as the conservstives will punched themselves in the nuts more recently over the eu

  4. #4

    We'll see on that one. I wonder whether thirteen years in the political wilderness might have taught

    the right wing of the tory party a lesson about not getting complacent and disappearing up its own arse. The Conservative party isn't used to that sort of thing and the memory of having its clothes so effectively stolen by Blair is still pretty raw.

    Your point about belief is an interesting one, actually. I have been pointing out to everyone who keeps coming up to me with the 'shy tory' narrative that they're missing the point entirely. The point is that voting tory is not an ideological position for most people, but a pragmatic choice. Thus, plenty of people will vote tory without ever identifying as tories themselves, whereas Labour voters tend to identify as such on an ideological level. The problem being, of course, that until voting Labour is a similarly pragmatic choice for the voter, they will remain out of office.

  5. #5

    And you are precisely correct. The conservstive party is a party of government, not of politics

    It believes only in sound, sensible government and the protection of institutions from rampant silliness or ghastly notions such as progress.

    The strike against conservstives is obviously that they dont believe in anything and in a political sense this is true. Aside from vague notions of small government, self reliance and hatred of the poor (i just put that one in for a laugh) they dont. What they do is produce a clear message that the average voter can understand and accept. Until labour do this they will remain in opposition.

    Blair understood this but crucially he also understood how to craft the message. We hsve five years to find a team who can do the same.

    I am going to get dragged into this, i just know it. Maybe it is time.....

  6. #6

    Yes. The Conservatives also benefit from the fact that the British tend to be somewhat dubious about

    ideology - at least when it is expressed as such. The trick is to be ideological whilst not frightening the horses.

    That said, of course, the irony is that Mrs T was probably the most ideologically-driven Prime Minister this country has had since Gladstone.

  7. #7

    Yes, contrary to popular belief, life is actually a far simpler business

    if you have money. This popular belief is, of course, mostly proposed by rich folk in order to stop the poor from stealing their cars.

  8. #8

    I don't see why voting for Labour can't be a pragmatic choice for those who see their

    interests best served by it. There seems to be this theory going round that all labour voters are either media luvvies (the so-called 'metropolitan elite') or strident ideologues.

  9. #9

    It can, that is the point. And under blair it was. Of course, most of it is a conjuring trick

    With a lot of people it isnt even about the amount of tax you take fromthem as the difference is often minimal. It is about trust, identification and the choices you make.

    I am actuslly slightly worse off under the tories and i am hard working, on a decent wage, dont claim any benefits. I do exactly what they claim they want yet they stick it to me.

    Certsin people around me are in the same situation but they firmly believe they are personally better off even when it is obvious they are not. That is the magic pf the conservstive party.

  10. #10

    Just catching up on all the election coverage; the best bit seems to have been

    Cameron apparently forgetting which football team he supports. Verily, this is the sort of opportunity his people would've been dreaming of!

    Why won't lefties get it that toffs behaving like toffs actually goes down well with the voters. It's extremely reassuring for them to learn that their leader, a man who has been fabulously wealthy all his life, has better things to think about than which soccerball club is which. That's the whole point.

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