Hmmm. Hard to know where to start with the irony of The Guardian publishing a piece

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Originally Posted by Peter

You cant take the guns but you can make it illegal to carry them.

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Which will do absolutely nothing to stop someone who wants to kill large numbers of people, of course.

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Originally Posted by Sir C

Surely the elephant in the room here is Switzerland, where every **** and his dog owns a rifle but few are moved to use them to mow down a bunch of innocent schmoes.

The answer is, clearly, that the problem isn't the guns, it's the mental fúcker pulling the trigger, so as long as these mental septics stick to taking out other septics, the problem is self-resolving. No more septics, no more massacres. :shrug:

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All the more remarkable when you consider that they're surrounded by other Swiss people. If I had to live in Switzerland, I'd go on a gun rampage within a few weeks.

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Originally Posted by Burney

Which will do absolutely nothing to stop someone who wants to kill large numbers of people, of course.

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Of course not. Just as making drugs illegal doesnt stop people taking them; just as making murder illegal doesnt stop it happening.

It would, however, mean the individual is breaking the law the moment he leaves the house with the weapons. It would also prevent many of the shootings that are accidental or circumstantial and that arise simply because people have guns on them when an incident occurs.

In the broader sense, it means people would not be routinely walking round with concealed weapons. I think that would be a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Of course not. Just as making drugs illegal doesnt stop people taking them; just as making murder illegal doesnt stop it happening.

It would, however, mean the individual is breaking the law the moment he leaves the house with the weapons. It would also prevent many of the shootings that are accidental or circumstantial and that arise simply because people have guns on them when an incident occurs.

In the broader sense, it means people would not be routinely walking round with concealed weapons. I think that would be a good thing.

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Missing one key point here though..its not what Americans want . Now you might show me a poll that says otherwise , but i would have no faith in it . Totally different culture when it comes to guns here and it takes some getting used to

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Originally Posted by Peter

Of course not. Just as making drugs illegal doesnt stop people taking them; just as making murder illegal doesnt stop it happening.

It would, however, mean the individual is breaking the law the moment he leaves the house with the weapons. It would also prevent many of the shootings that are accidental or circumstantial and that arise simply because people have guns on them when an incident occurs.

In the broader sense, it means people would not be routinely walking round with concealed weapons. I think that would be a good thing.

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I don’t disagree, but the fact remains that legally-held and concealed firearms really aren’t a very big problem. Most of America’s gun deaths involve domestics, street crime using illegal firearms, mass killings such as this one or accidents on private land. None of them would be notably affected by what you propose.

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Originally Posted by bbrian

Missing one key point here though..its not what Americans want . Now you might show me a poll that says otherwise , but i would have no faith in it . Totally different culture when it comes to guns here and it takes some getting used to

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Oh I know that. They love their guns. My point was only that it is possible to take some action on it, short of marching into everyone's house and nicking their gun.

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Originally Posted by Burney

I don’t disagree, but the fact remains that legally-held and concealed firearms really aren’t a very big problem. Most of America’s gun deaths involve domestics, street crime using illegal firearms, mass killings such as this one or accidents on private land. None of them would be notably affected by what you propose.

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It may not. The point would be to try and move away from this 'gun culture', if you can call it that.

If you look at it another way, they only kill each other with guns because everyone has got one. If they didnt have guns they would use something else. Either way, they are still going to kill each other.

We may be rightly proud of how few gun deaths we have here but people do still get killed. A ban on guns is good news for your knife salesman.....

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Originally Posted by Peter

It may not. The point would be to try and move away from this 'gun culture', if you can call it that.

If you look at it another way, they only kill each other with guns because everyone has got one. If they didnt have guns they would use something else. Either way, they are still going to kill each other.

We may be rightly proud of how few gun deaths we have here but people do still get killed. A ban on guns is good news for your knife salesman.....

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I think this is akin to the argument that you'll change the UK's drinking culture by preventing people drinking on the street. You won't because such cultures really aren't that malleable. They will merely adapt.

Clearly America's gun laws fail miserably to acknowledge the fact that Americans want to kill one another in large numbers. That is their failing: they are inappropriate to their society from a public health perspective. I suspect things wouldn't be much different over here were we to have the same laws.

I heard on the radio earlier that the killer dude had 40 guns/weapons to his name. An impressive figure I am sure you will agree.

Now I assume a fair number of these were illegal as surely to God it is not legal for a normal chap to own 40 guns?

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Originally Posted by Burney

I think this is akin to the argument that you'll change the UK's drinking culture by preventing people drinking on the street. You won't because such cultures really aren't that malleable. They will merely adapt.

Clearly America's gun laws fail miserably to acknowledge the fact that Americans want to kill one another in large numbers. That is their failing: they are inappropriate to their society from a public health perspective. I suspect things wouldn't be much different over here were we to have the same laws.

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Their problem is that they don't fight. They'll happily hurl insults at each other whilst crossing the road, but lack the masculine qualities of decent English gentlemen and the cojones to throw a punch. Instead, they bottle it all up until, eventually, the inevitable happens.

Wánkers to a man.