So....What have we learned from all this?

From the Stanford and other studies, true lethality rate is around 0.02%. No more severe than any seasonal flu.

The peak in the UK was around the 8th of April, should any lockdown methods have made any difference whatsoever, it was too late. (hint they would not have)

The slowing of infection was a flawed strategy, all it achieved was slowing the time taken to reach the immunity wall, therefore putting the vulnerable at risk for an extended period of time. Stay home, save lives in reality, was actually, stay home, cost lives. At no point was the NHS ever overwhelmed.

Social distancing removes ones ability to fight any alien pathogens, as to put in layman's terms the human body's good bugs, day in day out, are spoiling for a fight. Removal of the normal presence of alien-invaders for an extended period of time lessens these defenses, leaving one more prone to ANY viral infection.

Hand-sanitizer, whilst yes does remove the virus, when used excessively for no good reason, also strips the bodies natural good-guys away, similarly leaving one more prone to infection.

Face-masks are completely useless as virus is not airborne and if sneezed or coughed on, can get in through the eyes anyway.

The virus has no effect on children, leaving schools open would have created the immunity wall and protected the nation. Children also rarely infect adults. From the UK's numbers, only 7 under 10s have tragically died from from this, and 5 of those had known underlying conditions.

In the UK so far, deaths from under 45s is less than 350 in total.

The flu-vaccine, in addition to being useless for anyone who does not own a time machine, would make one 36% more likely to be infected with the corona-virus. As the virus is scientifically 'done' now, there is no need to harp on about developing a virus, there is absolutely no point.

To summarize, every single piece of government advice was counter-productive or just plain wrong. This is before we pull part the IC's joke predictions and flawed computer models, and without going down any conspiracy rabbit holes regarding Professor Lockdown-Pantsdown and his left-wing climate change, anti fossil fuel bint.

Securing the vulnerable and Keep Calm Carry On would have meant we were free to enjoy bank-holiday VE day, rather than operating under wartime conditions. Take Sweden as a case in point.

What has this cost? How many lives have been lost due to this junk science? Who is going to be held accountable?
Will this once great nation wake up from its brainwashed, terrified slumber and stop propagating and regurgitating mistruths they are spoon fed on social media and start asking questions, rather than accepting what they are told?

Science is the ENDLESS pursuit for the truth. Science is never settled.

dismal out

We learned there is no immunity. You can catch it more than once. I can’t be arsed to point out all your other errors. Your post is garbage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taxman10

We learned there is no immunity. You can catch it more than once. I can’t be arsed to point out all your other errors. Your post is garbage

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Your response is lazy and more suited to Twitter..say nothing if you're not willing to take the time to point out his errors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbrian

Your response is lazy and more suited to Twitter..say nothing if you're not willing to take the time to point out his errors.

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Arsenal are 1-0 up in the '79 Cup Final bb :thumbup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by barrybueno

Arsenal are 1-0 up in the '79 Cup Final bb :thumbup:

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Have a feeling it will go right to the end that one baz...i have a tenner on Sunderland to get the winner though. Fingers crossed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbrian

Have a feeling it will go right to the end that one baz...i have a tenner on Sunderland to get the winner though. Fingers crossed

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Geddin! Stapleton 2-0, Brady awesome. I reckon Tony C will give you 50/1 now :-D

Edit: You da man! i was screaming Wenger OUT! at 2-2 but fair play. TC owes you 500 quid ;-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taxman10

We learned there is no immunity. You can catch it more than once. I can’t be arsed to point out all your other errors. Your post is garbage

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This is the biggest load of garbage i have ever read? Where and when did we ‘learn there is no immunity’ and ‘you can catch it more than once’. Utter complete bull****. I can back up everything in my post with credible scientific evidence but you would have to put the effort in and read, learn and understand. You clearly couldn’t be arsed at school, so why start now?

I would imagine an elite sportsman at Juventus would have pretty good medical care. Dybala has tested positive multiple times after having apparently recovered.

NHS wasn’t overwhelmed due primarily to the lockdown. There is no immunity as demonstrated by dybala so lockdown buys time for vaccine.

Clearly you are one of these brexit at all costs characters who think 20k deaths is fine as long as your trip to the shops or the pub isn’t interrupted. Selfishness is the problem with most people in the Uk these days and you aptly demonstrate this in your original post.

If you can back up your ridiculous claims with scientific peer reviewed papers please do so. I know you won’t because you can’t. They don’t exist.

If you are so confident about immunity why don’t you go and hang out in your local hospital and deliberately catch it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taxman10

I would imagine an elite sportsman at Juventus would have pretty good medical care. Dybala has tested positive multiple times after having apparently recovered

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What sort of croc of **** is that? Apologies for the curt response but there's little science in 'imagine', 'pretty good' and 'apparently'

Quote:

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NHS wasn’t overwhelmed due primarily to the lockdown.

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Rubbish, the lockdown made NO difference as the peak had passed. Define primarily please, in conjunction with what? Again, take Sweden as a case in point

Quote:

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There is no immunity as demonstrated by Dybala so lockdown buys time for vaccine.

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Where to start with this? A Juventus player demonstrated there being no immunity, despite ALL previous coronaviruses being finished when the immunity wall is built, as happens every single year since time began.
As for 'buying time for a vaccine'. Have you read that back. How long do you think it actually takes to bring a vaccine onto the world stage? Are you serious, should we lockdown for a decade, perhaps 20 years?

Quote:

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Clearly you are one of these brexit at all costs characters who think 20k deaths is fine as long as your trip to the shops or the pub isn’t interrupted.

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20K deaths, sadly, is inline with every previous year and influenza cycle. The lockdown has not prevented people being infected, it merely slowed it, which in effect slowed the immunity wall so achieved nothing. This slowdown of immunity will kill more in the long run. There's no dispute about that finding.

I'm not sure what Brexit has to do with any of this, though the EU have proven themselves completely and utterly useless at managing this situation.

Quote:

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Selfishness is the problem with most people in the Uk these days and you aptly demonstrate this in your original post.

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I see nothing selfish at all in my post, I merely lay out findings from real scientists. You are forcing how you want others to behave due to your views, I see that as selfish. Should you wish you put some science behind your views I will gladly digest it.

I should be free to choose whether or not I see myself or loved ones as being at risk and behave accordingly. Common sense rather than draconian, and quite possibly illegal measures taken out by the state.

Quote:

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If you can back up your ridiculous claims with scientific peer reviewed papers please do so. I know you won’t because you can’t. They don’t exist.

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I will link in my next post after this reply. There are is no scientific evidence to back up any of the UK governments actions, they were all made on a deeply flawed prediction model, this is now common knowledge, with the IC computer model rubbished by anyone who has studied it.

Quote:

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If you are so confident about immunity why don’t you go and hang out in your local hospital and deliberately catch it?

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Being of good health, I am happy to be part of the immunity wall to protect others, a deeply unselfish act. Don't forget that between 60 - 80% of us will have to catch it to nullify the threat. You cannot hide under your bed and hope it goes away, unless you propose locking down the entire world for eternity.

As for hanging out in a local hospital, well seeing as the corona wards are empty, the nightingale not in use, due to the gross over-exaggeration of how dangerous this virus actually is, then how would i deliberately catch it?

You seem to have been brainwashed or scared to death by the highly successful propaganda campaign and although you may disagree with my views, at least i have invested time and effort to reach my opinion.

I have researched and read and watched hours of discussion, rather than listen to Piers Morgan, or soak up bull**** from Facebook and am brave enough to not be bullied into agreement, preferring instead to question, challenge and think for myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taxman10

I would imagine an elite sportsman at Juventus would have pretty good medical care. Dybala has tested positive multiple times after having apparently recovered.

NHS wasn’t overwhelmed due primarily to the lockdown. There is no immunity as demonstrated by dybala so lockdown buys time for vaccine.

Clearly you are one of these brexit at all costs characters who think 20k deaths is fine as long as your trip to the shops or the pub isn’t interrupted. Selfishness is the problem with most people in the Uk these days and you aptly demonstrate this in your original post.

If you can back up your ridiculous claims with scientific peer reviewed papers please do so. I know you won’t because you can’t. They don’t exist.

If you are so confident about immunity why don’t you go and hang out in your local hospital and deliberately catch it?

---

There are papers written on how we cant build immunity on this?

Meunier's paper on the lockdown effectiveness:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....24.20078717v1

John Ioannidis (Stanford Universtiy) study on realistic mortality figures:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwPqmLoZA4s

Excellent article showing the prediction model vs reality when applied to the Swedish reaction. This is absolutely shocking:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/05/02/

Streecks study:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrL9QKGQrWk

Quick summary on Ferguson's crimes, if you are unfamiliar
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ons-dodgy.html

PCR antibody study findings:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...qSc/edit#gid=0

Danish antibody findings:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....24.20075291v1

Iran:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....26.20079244v1

Japan:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....26.20079822v2

Germany:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....17.20061440v1

Breakdown of IC model, used to influence the UK government:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/how-con...ovid-19-model/

Code review of IC model:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/code-re...rgusons-model/
2nd analysis:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/second-...rgusons-model/


Wittkoski's study:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....28.20036715v5

and updated interview, a very good explanation of everything here. He also links to data in the interview, which you can go check out for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Q4naYOYDw

The whole series is worth watching, if you are genuinely interested.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dismalswamp

From the Stanford and other studies, true lethality rate is around 0.02%. No more severe than any seasonal flu.

The peak in the UK was around the 8th of April, should any lockdown methods have made any difference whatsoever, it was too late. (hint they would not have)

The slowing of infection was a flawed strategy, all it achieved was slowing the time taken to reach the immunity wall, therefore putting the vulnerable at risk for an extended period of time. Stay home, save lives in reality, was actually, stay home, cost lives. At no point was the NHS ever overwhelmed.

Social distancing removes ones ability to fight any alien pathogens, as to put in layman's terms the human body's good bugs, day in day out, are spoiling for a fight. Removal of the normal presence of alien-invaders for an extended period of time lessens these defenses, leaving one more prone to ANY viral infection.

Hand-sanitizer, whilst yes does remove the virus, when used excessively for no good reason, also strips the bodies natural good-guys away, similarly leaving one more prone to infection.

Face-masks are completely useless as virus is not airborne and if sneezed or coughed on, can get in through the eyes anyway.

The virus has no effect on children, leaving schools open would have created the immunity wall and protected the nation. Children also rarely infect adults. From the UK's numbers, only 7 under 10s have tragically died from from this, and 5 of those had known underlying conditions.

In the UK so far, deaths from under 45s is less than 350 in total.

The flu-vaccine, in addition to being useless for anyone who does not own a time machine, would make one 36% more likely to be infected with the corona-virus. As the virus is scientifically 'done' now, there is no need to harp on about developing a virus, there is absolutely no point.

To summarize, every single piece of government advice was counter-productive or just plain wrong. This is before we pull part the IC's joke predictions and flawed computer models, and without going down any conspiracy rabbit holes regarding Professor Lockdown-Pantsdown and his left-wing climate change, anti fossil fuel bint.

Securing the vulnerable and Keep Calm Carry On would have meant we were free to enjoy bank-holiday VE day, rather than operating under wartime conditions. Take Sweden as a case in point.

What has this cost? How many lives have been lost due to this junk science? Who is going to be held accountable?
Will this once great nation wake up from its brainwashed, terrified slumber and stop propagating and regurgitating mistruths they are spoon fed on social media and start asking questions, rather than accepting what they are told?

Science is the ENDLESS pursuit for the truth. Science is never settled.

dismal out

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I’ve learned that cyclists are absolutely out of control. Pedestrians think they can walk down the middle of the road, and there is a woman with a magnificent arse who runs past my house every day. :cloud9:

I fear a village is missing its idiot

Every single scientific study you link to hasn’t been peer reviewed (as you may note I specified peer reviewed studies) so until peer reviewed these remain the thoughts and views of individual scientists

You then link to articles written by a group called “lockdown sceptics”. Hardly impartial commentators. I would liken them to quoting Nigel farage in support of a brexit argument. Pathetic

To top it all off you link to a daily mail article which needs no further commentary but aptly demonstrates your lack of intelligence as far as producing credible evidence in support of your argument goes

Well done

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taxman10

I fear a village is missing its idiot

Every single scientific study you link to hasn’t been peer reviewed (as you may note I specified peer reviewed studies) so until peer reviewed these remain the thoughts and views of individual scientists

You then link to articles written by a group called “lockdown sceptics”. Hardly impartial commentators. I would liken them to quoting Nigel farage in support of a brexit argument. Pathetic

To top it all off you link to a daily mail article which needs no further commentary but aptly demonstrates your lack of intelligence as far as producing credible evidence in support of your argument goes

Well done

---

I do understand what peer review means. All of these studies are new, so I would expect it to take time for them to be peer reviewed and challenged, rather than just accepted. This is science.

Can you please post the studies and science behind your viewpoints for me to consider?

Lockdown sceptics are certainly not impartial, although they do post many pro-lockdown arguments and differing viewpoints rather than censor or dismiss opposing voices.

Using links on that site is an easy and convenient way to link to a series of articles that question the science behind the current situation. The articles are not authored by the site, though wherever they are posted does not alter nor belittle the content.

When linking to the Mail article, I even stated it was an easy and quick summary of the Ferguson story - I could have linked you to this in many different publications, or even the original findings, and the Oxford Study, if you would prefer to wade through pages. I could not have made it clearer with my description on this, for a quick and easy catch-up. You are free to do your own research.

You can read more here: https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/global...atality-rates/ and you can read about Oxford questioning the IC findings, and how the IC backed down from their original estimates, the estimates that instigated the lockdown measures.

Now I have laid out everything that I said I would, backed up my findings and asked you to detail and provide evidence to backup your stand point. You have failed to do so, and indeed have resulted to personal abuse, and called me an idiot, as clearly you have no argument. I do feel this makes you look a little foolish, but I do not wish to retaliate in personal abuse.

For one last time I will ask for some kind of evidence, scientific papers, anything 'real' from your side to counter my post or discredit the studies that have been linked above. Have you even read any of them?

I’m disappointed you didn’t post more daily mail or lockdownsceptics links

The fact is no one knows if the lockdown is making a difference or not. Much like the nightingale hospital I would rather we err on the side of caution rather than chance it and end up with even more dead. I suspect most people think the same

I’m sorry you daily life has been disrupted. I’m sure weatherspoons will still be there for you when the lockdown ends

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dismalswamp

I do understand what peer review means. All of these studies are new, so I would expect it to take time for them to be peer reviewed and challenged, rather than just accepted. This is science.

---

Not entirely true.

A few weeks back there was data from France showing smokers are 4-5x less likely to get it. And there was data from China showing the same that they'd sent to a US medical journal for peer review and publication and the Chinks knew no-one would trust anything they said otherwise.

So peer review can happen quite quickly.

I'm disappointed you cannot make any effort in this 'discussion'. Please don't post sentences such as the 'the fact is no-one knows if the lockdown is making a difference' when i've posted links to many papers that do detail what it has and has not achieved, both the pros and cons. You clearly are lazy, have read none of the articles and have gotten in a little too deep here and are unable to counter at all.

I believe it's Wetherspoons not Weatherspoons but yet again, personal abuse substituting for a lack of argument, unfortunately to have backfired somewhat.

If you do have nothing constructive or helpful to post, then please refrain from the abuse, though i would be interested to hear the thoughts of others in this thread. By challenging and arguing we will come to a better outcome, rather than being herded like sheep.

I’m intrigued you consider drinking in Wetherspoons to be some sort of insult

Fact is you posted 2 dubious supporting sources (daily mail and lockdownsceptics) and a bunch of non peer reviewed papers.

May I remind you that you started this thread with a rant about lifting the lockdown and have provided very flimsy evidence to back up your plea. I am not arguing to continue the lockdown, I’m merely questioning the scientific backup for your argument (flimsy) and stating that most right minded people would probably rather the government overreact than let tens of thousands of people die

As I said before. Why don’t you go and catch the disease to acquire the immunity you think exists? Could it be that even some of those with mild symptoms seem to be suffering continual medical issues with lung capacity etc and you don’t want to risk it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taxman10

I’m intrigued you consider drinking in Wetherspoons to be some sort of insult

Fact is you posted 2 dubious supporting sources (daily mail and lockdownsceptics) and a bunch of non peer reviewed papers.

May I remind you that you started this thread with a rant about lifting the lockdown and have provided very flimsy evidence to back up your plea. I am not arguing to continue the lockdown, I’m merely questioning the scientific backup for your argument (flimsy) and stating that most right minded people would probably rather the government overreact than let tens of thousands of people die

As I said before. Why don’t you go and catch the disease to acquire the immunity you think exists? Could it be that even some of those with mild symptoms seem to be suffering continual medical issues with lung capacity etc and you don’t want to risk it?

---

I didn't post a rant, i laid out some points made by scientific experts, and linked to their papers.
Your response was that is 'garbage', and have despite being asked several times, you have failed to provide anything at all to dispute any of those findings.

As declared previously, lockdown sceptics did not author any of those posts, is merely a website that collates corona news and reports, so please get over yourself, and please stop shouting bias to cover your lack of being to provide any credible counter-argument.

I like your use of 'right minded people'. I would substitute it for brain-washed idiots, who thankfully are beginning to realize that they have been, at least in part, lied to, and their futures destroyed for no good reason.

The number of people dying from this virus, tragic as it is, is no different from any previous year, and well behind the flu outbreak in the UK during 2014.

We have now heard that the lockdown measures will cause an extra 50,000 unnecessary cancer deaths this year. You can go and find the sources for that, as I cannot be bothered to carry you any further. Heaven knows how many others can be added to that total with the disruption caused to lives and other hospital treatments.

The lockdown has not saved a single life, it is merely a delaying tactic to slow the spread, in case our NHS could not cope. Well the NHS has not been overwhelmed, and is not going to be, so the lockdown must end. The government themselves stated that immunity is the only answer, which you don't apparently believe in, even though every scientific body on both sides seem to agree with.

Regarding the Juventus player that your entire standpoint seems precariously balanced on:
Do you think the most likely outcome:
a) He was infected multiple times by the same virus (a somewhat unique trait for a respiratory virus)?
or
b) The testing might not have been up to scratch?

The policy of slowing the spread, slowing the immunity, will actually kill more vulnerable, than a big-bang spread has been well-made by many others.

I suggest that you watch the Knut Wittkowski interview, all of it, and assess his answers, and the sources that he cites, before continuing further.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dismalswamp

From the Stanford and other studies, true lethality rate is around 0.02%. No more severe than any seasonal flu.

The peak in the UK was around the 8th of April, should any lockdown methods have made any difference whatsoever, it was too late. (hint they would not have)

The slowing of infection was a flawed strategy, all it achieved was slowing the time taken to reach the immunity wall, therefore putting the vulnerable at risk for an extended period of time. Stay home, save lives in reality, was actually, stay home, cost lives. At no point was the NHS ever overwhelmed.

Social distancing removes ones ability to fight any alien pathogens, as to put in layman's terms the human body's good bugs, day in day out, are spoiling for a fight. Removal of the normal presence of alien-invaders for an extended period of time lessens these defenses, leaving one more prone to ANY viral infection.

Hand-sanitizer, whilst yes does remove the virus, when used excessively for no good reason, also strips the bodies natural good-guys away, similarly leaving one more prone to infection.

Face-masks are completely useless as virus is not airborne and if sneezed or coughed on, can get in through the eyes anyway.

The virus has no effect on children, leaving schools open would have created the immunity wall and protected the nation. Children also rarely infect adults. From the UK's numbers, only 7 under 10s have tragically died from from this, and 5 of those had known underlying conditions.

In the UK so far, deaths from under 45s is less than 350 in total.

The flu-vaccine, in addition to being useless for anyone who does not own a time machine, would make one 36% more likely to be infected with the corona-virus. As the virus is scientifically 'done' now, there is no need to harp on about developing a virus, there is absolutely no point.

To summarize, every single piece of government advice was counter-productive or just plain wrong. This is before we pull part the IC's joke predictions and flawed computer models, and without going down any conspiracy rabbit holes regarding Professor Lockdown-Pantsdown and his left-wing climate change, anti fossil fuel bint.

Securing the vulnerable and Keep Calm Carry On would have meant we were free to enjoy bank-holiday VE day, rather than operating under wartime conditions. Take Sweden as a case in point.

What has this cost? How many lives have been lost due to this junk science? Who is going to be held accountable?
Will this once great nation wake up from its brainwashed, terrified slumber and stop propagating and regurgitating mistruths they are spoon fed on social media and start asking questions, rather than accepting what they are told?

Science is the ENDLESS pursuit for the truth. Science is never settled.

dismal out

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Well, you've not learned anything and we've learned you are a moron

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luis Anaconda

Well, you've not learned anything and we've learned you are a moron

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please elaborate, i welcome it.