This narrative that the premier league has been very weak this year which is why we

have won it with such a low points total etc etc.

I interpret this to mean the premier league has been MORE competitive. Lots more teams all taking points off each other, means lots more teams are competing at similar levels.

The alternative is one or two teams race off, able to beat everyone and finish on 98 points means the league was incredibly uncompetitive.

This year we have Brenford, Bournmouth, Villa, Sunderland, Brighton all able to take points from all the top teams. In addition to the traditional big teams. It seems to me that winning the league in such a competitive environment is an even bigger achievement!

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Originally Posted by Maravilloso Marvo

have won it with such a low points total etc etc.

I interpret this to mean the premier league has been MORE competitive. Lots more teams all taking points off each other, means lots more teams are competing at similar levels.

The alternative is one or two teams race off, able to beat everyone and finish on 98 points means the league was incredibly uncompetitive.

This year we have Brenford, Bournmouth, Villa, Sunderland, Brighton all able to take points from all the top teams. In addition to the traditional big teams. It seems to me that winning the league in such a competitive environment is an even bigger achievement!

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The top has been weaker. You could argue this is because the league is more competitive. Or that City, Chelsea, United and Liverpool were just a bit ****.

The relegation zone went higher than usual and there is a very tight distribution of points in the middle ten places.

I'd say the top six are not at their strongest and the next ten arguably are. So in a way, it is more competitive, but perhaps slightly easier to actually win the league.

But not as easy as it was last season. Liverpool were totally unchallenged.

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Originally Posted by Maravilloso Marvo

have won it with such a low points total etc etc.

I interpret this to mean the premier league has been MORE competitive. Lots more teams all taking points off each other, means lots more teams are competing at similar levels.

The alternative is one or two teams race off, able to beat everyone and finish on 98 points means the league was incredibly uncompetitive.

This year we have Brenford, Bournmouth, Villa, Sunderland, Brighton all able to take points from all the top teams. In addition to the traditional big teams. It seems to me that winning the league in such a competitive environment is an even bigger achievement!

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Nobody can get their head around the fact that the champions' outstanding, most thrilling performer was our set-piece coach. So the league must've been weaker as no brilliant players or teams performed brilliantly and got lots of brilliant results.

We won through boring consistency and competence, rather than exciting chaos; all that sideways passing :-\

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Originally Posted by Peter

The top has been weaker. You could argue this is because the league is more competitive. Or that City, Chelsea, United and Liverpool were just a bit ****.

The relegation zone went higher than usual and there is a very tight distribution of points in the middle ten places.

I'd say the top six are not at their strongest and the next ten arguably are. So in a way, it is more competitive, but perhaps slightly easier to actually win the league.

But not as easy as it was last season. Liverpool were totally unchallenged.

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3 PL teams in the 3x European competition finals. This is the hardest league to win and by some distance.

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Originally Posted by PSRB

3 PL teams in the 3x European competition finals. This is the hardest league to win and by some distance.

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Yep. It is nice to know that either Sunderland or Bournemouth will win the Europa league next season. They deserve it :-)

Brighton can **** off.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

So the league must've been weaker as no brilliant players or teams performed brilliantly and got lots of brilliant results.

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But this is exactly my point. Because the league is far MORE competitive, no team or player has been able to perform outstandingly for any period of time. More teams are better equiped to deal with things. We're in a phase of the league where you can't be a flat track bully and score 100 goals and get 100 points.

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Originally Posted by Maravilloso Marvo

But this is exactly my point. Because the league is far MORE competitive, no team or player has been able to perform outstandingly for any period of time. More teams are better equiped to deal with things. We're in a phase of the league where you can't be a flat track bully and score 100 goals and get 100 points.

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Absolutely! I agree.

We wouldn't know about that though, as nobody ever called us FTBs. The league is only brilliant if clubs from the North West dominate it :-\

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Originally Posted by PSRB

3 PL teams in the 3x European competition finals. This is the hardest league to win and by some distance.

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It's certainly the hardest for unfancied teams to win.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

It's certainly the hardest for unfancied teams to win.

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Unfancied is a bit strong. We have been Chair of the 'there or thereabouts club' for four years.

To put it another way, we have been the most consistent side in England over the past four years. It was really an issue of getting over the line. Or 'bottle', if you prefer.

The best we can expect is for us to be competitive again next season. And the one after.

In some ways, Arteta actually did his 'job' three years ago. Put us in a title race and got us back in the champions league. That is the club's expectation. Actually winning either of those competitions is a bonus.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Unfancied is a bit strong. We have been Chair of the 'there or thereabouts club' for four years.

To put it another way, we have been the most consistent side in England over the past four years. It was really an issue of getting over the line. Or 'bottle', if you prefer.

The best we can expect is for us to be competitive again next season. And the one after.

In some ways, Arteta actually did his 'job' three years ago. Put us in a title race and got us back in the champions league. That is the club's expectation. Actually winning either of those competitions is a bonus.

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Yes, the best thing that Arteta has given us back, that was absent in the latter Wenger years, is hope. Hope that we can win the league, hope even that we might come close. Actually winning it is a bonus.

There was nothing worse than being out of the league in January and hoping we make top 4 cause it's trophy blah, blah, blah

Awful years

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Originally Posted by WES

Yes, the best thing that Arteta has given us back, that was absent in the latter Wenger years, is hope. Hope that we can win the league, hope even that we might come close. Actually winning it is a bonus.

There was nothing worse than being out of the league in January and hoping we make top 4 cause it's trophy blah, blah, blah

Awful years

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Arteta has been very open about this. Although he calls it being competitive rather than having hope.

But that is the thing, you can't guarantee success. Afterall, only one team can win the league and there are 5-6 who are theoritically equipped to do so each year. But you can guarantee being competitive. Let's be part of the conversation, and if you do that, invariably, you will win some of the time as well.

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Originally Posted by Maravilloso Marvo

Arteta has been very open about this. Although he calls it being competitive rather than having hope.

But that is the thing, you can't guarantee success. Afterall, only one team can win the league and there are 5-6 who are theoritically equipped to do so each year. But you can guarantee being competitive. Let's be part of the conversation, and if you do that, invariably, you will win some of the time as well.

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Lots of very sensible observations in this thread......not very AWIMB at all.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Unfancied is a bit strong. We have been Chair of the 'there or thereabouts club' for four years.

To put it another way, we have been the most consistent side in England over the past four years. It was really an issue of getting over the line. Or 'bottle', if you prefer.

The best we can expect is for us to be competitive again next season. And the one after.

In some ways, Arteta actually did his 'job' three years ago. Put us in a title race and got us back in the champions league. That is the club's expectation. Actually winning either of those competitions is a bonus.

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Yes, I know this and I've always said it. Winning the league and being better than Manchester City are two different things; the latter is practically impossible, far too much money involved. We'll have to settle for the former :-)

Twenty-two years is a long time but, you must've seen that graphic doing the rounds; it's nowhere near the longest title-drought amongst teams who have actually won it before. We'll be alright.

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Originally Posted by Maravilloso Marvo

Arteta has been very open about this. Although he calls it being competitive rather than having hope.

But that is the thing, you can't guarantee success. Afterall, only one team can win the league and there are 5-6 who are theoritically equipped to do so each year. But you can guarantee being competitive. Let's be part of the conversation, and if you do that, invariably, you will win some of the time as well.

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George used to say something similar. We may not be the best team with the best players playing the best football but there's no excuse not to compete.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Yes, I know this and I've always said it. Winning the league and being better than Manchester City are two different things; the latter is practically impossible, far too much money involved. We'll have to settle for the former :-)

Twenty-two years is a long time but, you must've seen that graphic doing the rounds; it's nowhere near the longest title-drought amongst teams who have actually won it before. We'll be alright.

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And you have also said that we have to get everything right in order to win it. And that is why this season was so incredibly important.

We had everything right, and nobody else did. And that made it a title we should win. And as we are not going to get many opportunities like that, we have to take them when they come.

I feel the same about Saturday. It is almost greedy to want the champions league as well but those finals dont come along very often unless you are Real Madrid. We may never get a better chance to win it......

Whatever happens, Arteta is vindicated. As are the owners, by the way..... nice to see them there on Sunday. They do actually deserve a fair bit of credit.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

George used to say something similar. We may not be the best team with the best players playing the best football but there's no excuse not to compete.

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Was that not in the context of within each game? Being aggresive and winning your duals? You have to compete to win your duals, Amazon Prime showed us all that.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Yes, I know this and I've always said it. Winning the league and being better than Manchester City are two different things; the latter is practically impossible, far too much money involved. We'll have to settle for the former :-)

Twenty-two years is a long time but, you must've seen that graphic doing the rounds; it's nowhere near the longest title-drought amongst teams who have actually won it before. We'll be alright.

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It is our longest drought. Shorter than those of United and Liverpool.

Worth noting that only three men have ever won the league for United. Their achievements are built on the huge success of two men and two eras. Outside of those, they've been pretty ****e....

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Originally Posted by Peter

It is our longest drought. Shorter than those of United and Liverpool.

Worth noting that only three men have ever won the league for United. Their achievements are built on the huge success of two men and two eras. Outside of those, they've been pretty ****e....

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This insight is incredibly interesting P.

I don't know much about us winning the league in 48 and 53. In my mind, you have the Herbert Chapman success in the 30s, then Bertie Mee in 71, then George Graham and Wenger.

Then I appreciate it is probably because of my age, but these last 22 years have literally flown by. So couple that together with my mind thinking that the gaps further back were an eternity and I am left very confused by the concept of time.

Also, very interesting viewpoint on the histories of Man Utd and Liverpool.