So with the league all but over, let's switch to another subject - Jeffrey Epstein?

is it just me or have some people lost their perspective a little?

As abhorrent as he may have been, surely having contact with an abhorrent cretin is not illegal? And speaking of abhorrent, the former prince is by all accounts an entitled c*nt of the highest order, but that is also not illegal.

I see the latest evidence shows an email in which Epstein suggests he have dinner with a 25 year old Russian woman. And a few pics of him on the floor next to another woman whose age we do not know, both fully clothed.

This is starting to get a little to metoo for my taste, if I'm honest. He's dead, and good riddance, but that hardly means that everyone who ever knew him is a criminal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WES

is it just me or have some people lost their perspective a little?

As abhorrent as he may have been, surely having contact with an abhorrent cretin is not illegal? And speaking of abhorrent, the former prince is by all accounts an entitled c*nt of the highest order, but that is also not illegal.

I see the latest evidence shows an email in which Epstein suggests he have dinner with a 25 year old Russian woman. And a few pics of him on the floor next to another woman whose age we do not know, both fully clothed.

This is starting to get a little to metoo for my taste, if I'm honest. He's dead, and good riddance, but that hardly means that everyone who ever knew him is a criminal.

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There is something pretty sinister about how acceptable it has become to declare people guilty simply by association - how many times can Andrew get kicked in the nuts for the 'cime' of boning some chick? If there is a suggestion of underage sheningans then surely he needs to be tried and found guilty before being sentenced to banichment and cancellation?

It's all the fault of Peter Cook. The comedians in the 60s who swept away traditional ideas of deference and politeness to one's betters opened the doors to the hippies who rejected religion, which had traditionally given us a moral framework around which to live, leaving us in a moral vacuum with no rules and no guidance.

This vacuum has been filled by the new puritansim of the post-modernist left. Headgear, for example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir C

There is something pretty sinister about how acceptable it has become to declare people guilty simply by association - how many times can Andrew get kicked in the nuts for the 'cime' of boning some chick? If there is a suggestion of underage sheningans then surely he needs to be tried and found guilty before being sentenced to banichment and cancellation?

It's all the fault of Peter Cook. The comedians in the 60s who swept away traditional ideas of deference and politeness to one's betters opened the doors to the hippies who rejected religion, which had traditionally given us a moral framework around which to live, leaving us in a moral vacuum with no rules and no guidance.

This vacuum has been filled by the new puritansim of the post-modernist left. Headgear, for example.

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I think you've totally missed the point of the '60s, C.

Religion had been in sharp decline in the west, certainly in GB, since WW1. We could accept a God who gave us an empire but not one who killed half the seed of Europe one by one in the trenches.

Seance mysticism replaced the CoE post-war as mothers tried to contact their dead sons' spirits.

By post WW2, the CofE was basically not much more than the Tory party at prayer.

Then the '60s came along and we invented the hippy scene with the Beatles going to India and showing that real religion is Vedic and you don't need holy books and priests, you smoke puff like the sadhus and/or bosh acid and Commune with the Divine yourself.

Hippies didn't reject religion, we reinvented it in the west in the same way Rastafarianism did for the blacks in the Carib and then here.

Pwoppa religions, see? God doesn't want you to just have a tiny sip of cheap wine on a Sunday, He wants you to get off your tits all the time the better to know Him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WES

is it just me or have some people lost their perspective a little?

As abhorrent as he may have been, surely having contact with an abhorrent cretin is not illegal? And speaking of abhorrent, the former prince is by all accounts an entitled c*nt of the highest order, but that is also not illegal.

I see the latest evidence shows an email in which Epstein suggests he have dinner with a 25 year old Russian woman. And a few pics of him on the floor next to another woman whose age we do not know, both fully clothed.

This is starting to get a little to metoo for my taste, if I'm honest. He's dead, and good riddance, but that hardly means that everyone who ever knew him is a criminal.

---

The problem you have here is that some incredibly powerful people are involved. Possibly all of the world's most powerful people. This makes me mistrust what we do see and wonder about what we don't- and why.

Are we being fed a few sacrificial lambs to distract from the others involved?

The news that Peter Mandelson is a bit dodgy around money is hardly news. It ranks alongside 'Arsenal are quite good at corners'. :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

I think you've totally missed the point of the '60s, C.

Religion had been in sharp decline in the west, certainly in GB, since WW1. We could accept a God who gave us an empire but not one who killed half the seed of Europe one by one in the trenches.

Seance mysticism replaced the CoE post-war as mothers tried to contact their dead sons' spirits.

By post WW2, the CofE was basically not much more than the Tory party at prayer.

Then the '60s came along and we invented the hippy scene with the Beatles going to India and showing that real religion is Vedic and you don't need holy books and priests, you smoke puff like the sadhus and/or bosh acid and Commune with the Divine yourself.

Hippies didn't reject religion, we reinvented it in the west in the same way Rastafarianism did for the blacks in the Carib and then here.

Pwoppa religions, see? God doesn't want you to just have a tiny sip of cheap wine on a Sunday, He wants you to get off your tits all the time the better to know Him.

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I don't think that the search for a religion that condones your behaviour and fits with your vices is really embracing religion. It is bad faith.

If you want to get off your tits all the time, be my guest. But don't tell me it is due to your beliefs :-)

Me, I just like a drink these days....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter

I don't think that the search for a religion that condones your behaviour and fits with your vices is really embracing religion. It is bad faith.

If you want to get off your tits all the time, be my guest. But don't tell me it is due to your beliefs :-)

Me, I just like a drink these days....

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In Manikaran, at the end of the Parvati Valley, there's a smaller Hindu temple as well as the giant Sikh Gurdwara, their 4th holiest site.

On the Hindu temple, in both Hindi and English, it said that when Parvati dropped Her ear jewel {manikaran} in the river and it didn't give it back, Shiva went to the mountains and smoked chillums for 14,000 years until He was so full of Prana {spiritual energy} that he could come back and get the Serpent God Sheshnag to hiss up the jewel Parvati lost, and all the hot springs and that it kept giving out more jewels until an earthquake in 1905.

Sadhus say Chillum makes me Shiva. You know psychedelic means mind expanding - the term being coined by Huxley - and that all the Vedic religions {and others like Druids} know of the spiritual planes of consciousness that you can attain by expanding your mind.

I didn't go to India to look for a religion that condoned my behaviour. Quite the opposite cos I totally lost it at a party on 3.5 STPs {when no-one had ever done more than one. When the Police came Sunday lunchtime they had to let us keep going cos I was alone on the dancefloor and my posse explained that if the music stopped they'd have to deal with a sectioning instead of getting back home for Sunday lunch.}

But when I got to India, I found out about Hinduism, psychedelics like charras, sadhus and spiritual planes of consciousness.

I didn't go looking for it, it just happens to be what I found there and Ganpati, for reasons best known to Him, chose me to be one of his millions of devotees - and it would have been rude to refuse.

As I say, it was the sadhus I spoke to in the mountains who started explaining things to be and as they say, chillum make me Shiva.

Again, I didn't ever look for a religion, one {or in fact all} found me.

All God Is One, as the very first bit of graffiti I saw in India said.

When they banned smoking in govt buildings in India 2-3 decades ago, they had to amend the bill so sadhus are allowed to smoke chillums everywhere.

PS, you might want to think about why Rastas have sadhu dreadlocks and smoke "Ganja".

Oh, and it really is due to my beliefs. I can only experience these spiritual planes by taking psychedelics, and I really want to understand as much as possible about the Divine, as there isn't enough academic research or theological discussion about these spiritual planes. So I have to get off my tits and hope to learn something. I'm afraid I'm actually being serious. But I in no way claim that what works for me alone would work for others nor that my way is better in any way shape or form that everyone else's ways of worshipping, investigating, understanding or communing with the Divine.

Why do you think God gave us drugs?

Oh, and why is it only cats who get the best drugs? No addiction or come down with catnip. Because cats are the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

In Manikaran, at the end of the Parvati Valley, there's a smaller Hindu temple as well as the giant Sikh Gurdwara, their 4th holiest site.

On the Hindu temple, in both Hindi and English, it said that when Parvati dropped Her ear jewel {manikaran} in the river and it didn't give it back, Shiva went to the mountains and smoked chillums for 14,000 years until He was so full of Prana {spiritual energy} that he could come back and get the Serpent God Sheshnag to hiss up the jewel Parvati lost, and all the hot springs and that it kept giving out more jewels until an earthquake in 1905.

Sadhus say Chillum makes me Shiva. You know psychedelic means mind expanding - the term being coined by Huxley - and that all the Vedic religions {and others like Druids} know of the spiritual planes of consciousness that you can attain by expanding your mind.

I didn't go to India to look for a religion that condoned my behaviour. Quite the opposite cos I totally lost it at a party on 3.5 STPs {when no-one had ever done more than one. When the Police came Sunday lunchtime they had to let us keep going cos I was alone on the dancefloor and my posse explained that if the music stopped they'd have to deal with a sectioning instead of getting back home for Sunday lunch.}

But when I got to India, I found out about Hinduism, psychedelics like charras, sadhus and spiritual planes of consciousness.

I didn't go looking for it, it just happens to be what I found there and Ganpati, for reasons best known to Him, chose me to be one of his millions of devotees - and it would have been rude to refuse.

As I say, it was the sadhus I spoke to in the mountains who started explaining things to be and as they say, chillum make me Shiva.

Again, I didn't ever look for a religion, one {or in fact all} found me.

All God Is One, as the very first bit of graffiti I saw in India said.

When they banned smoking in govt buildings in India 2-3 decades ago, they had to amend the bill so sadhus are allowed to smoke chillums everywhere.

PS, you might want to think about why Rastas have sadhu dreadlocks and smoke "Ganja".

Oh, and it really is due to my beliefs. I can only experience these spiritual planes by taking psychedelics, and I really want to understand as much as possible about the Divine, as there isn't enough academic research or theological discussion about these spiritual planes. So I have to get off my tits and hope to learn something. I'm afraid I'm actually being serious. But I in no way claim that what works for me alone would work for others nor that my way is better in any way shape or form that everyone else's ways of worshipping, investigating, understanding or communing with the Divine.

Why do you think God gave us drugs?

Oh, and why is it only cats who get the best drugs? No addiction or come down with catnip. Because cats are the best.

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I don't think God did give us drugs. I hope that answers your question :-)

I am not knocking anyone's religion. Well, I probably am, a bit.

I suppose I am saying that it doesn't matter to me what a man professes to believe, as long as he actually believes it.

I never needed an excuse to get ****ed up and I never did it in the hope or expectation of discovering anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter

The problem you have here is that some incredibly powerful people are involved. Possibly all of the world's most powerful people. This makes me mistrust what we do see and wonder about what we don't- and why.

Are we being fed a few sacrificial lambs to distract from the others involved?

The news that Peter Mandelson is a bit dodgy around money is hardly news. It ranks alongside 'Arsenal are quite good at corners'. :-)

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'Involved'. Involved in what, Peter? There was an amount of boning going on, allegedly. Pretty girls travel to a tropical island to shag rich old men? Hoodathunk it? He was convicted of underage shenanigans but to suggest anyone else did, on the basis of nothing but adjacency, doesn't sit well with me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir C

'Involved'. Involved in what, Peter? There was an amount of boning going on, allegedly. Pretty girls travel to a tropical island to shag rich old men? Hoodathunk it? He was convicted of underage shenanigans but to suggest anyone else did, on the basis of nothing but adjacency, doesn't sit well with me.

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I believe there is the suggestion that skme pretty underage girls were involved. Or, if you want to be pedantic, children. I believe that in some instances there are questions as to whether it was consensual.

Far be it from me to sit here and label anyone a pervert. But there will be individuals involved in this who have made a career out of lecturing us about our behaviour.

And with great power comes rich friends seeking influence, and potentially photographing you boning young women to enhance that 'influence'.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter

I believe there is the suggestion that skme pretty underage girls were involved. Or, if you want to be pedantic, children. I believe that in some instances there are questions as to whether it was consensual.

Far be it from me to sit here and label anyone a pervert. But there will be individuals involved in this who have made a career out of lecturing us about our behaviour.

And with great power comes rich friends seeking influence, and potentially photographing you boning young women to enhance that 'influence'.....

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It is this 'suggestion' that troubles me.

I might 'suggest' that you respect and admire Gary Neville and that you consider Mike Riley to be the best referee in the history of football. Imagine that suggestion running free throughout the interenet...

Proof. Proof of noncery by specific individuals is what we need before we can begin condemning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir C

It is this 'suggestion' that troubles me.

I might 'suggest' that you respect and admire Gary Neville and that you consider Mike Riley to be the best referee in the history of football. Imagine that suggestion running free throughout the interenet...

Proof. Proof of noncery by specific individuals is what we need before we can begin condemning.

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#throwback

https://youtu.be/XtkJNrzZVJ4?si=pOT6aLQSqphVbXna

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir C

It is this 'suggestion' that troubles me.

I might 'suggest' that you respect and admire Gary Neville and that you consider Mike Riley to be the best referee in the history of football. Imagine that suggestion running free throughout the interenet...

Proof. Proof of noncery by specific individuals is what we need before we can begin condemning.

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With great power comes the ability to ensure such proof remains out of the public domain.

I am not condemning anyone. I just said I dont trust that we are seeing the full story. And I dont.

I have not labelled anyone as anything. I'd be happy to, if it makes it easier.

Andrew is ****inf dodgy in a number of ways, and a liar.

There. That feels better:-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter

With great power comes the ability to ensure such proof remains out of the public domain.

I am not condemning anyone. I just said I dont trust that we are seeing the full story. And I dont.

I have not labelled anyone as anything. I'd be happy to, if it makes it easier.

Andrew is ****inf dodgy in a number of ways, and a liar.

There. That feels better:-)

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There is plenty of proof about Andrew being an entitled w*nker of the highest order who deserves to be chucked out of the royal family.

There is significantly less evidence that he has done anything illegal imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WES

There is plenty of proof about Andrew being an entitled w*nker of the highest order who deserves to be chucked out of the royal family.

There is significantly less evidence that he has done anything illegal imo.

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True. But he clearly isnt telling the truth on a number of fronts.

I just get the feeling that we are being fed Andrew and Mandelson as it makes little difference, and that there are bigger fish in there somewhere.

Perhaps some who currently hold significant office....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter

True. But he clearly isnt telling the truth on a number of fronts.

I just get the feeling that we are being fed Andrew and Mandelson as it makes little difference, and that there are bigger fish in there somewhere.

Perhaps some who currently hold significant office....

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It's the small fish we're worried about. Big fish can look after themselves, take their chances.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter

True. But he clearly isnt telling the truth on a number of fronts.

I just get the feeling that we are being fed Andrew and Mandelson as it makes little difference, and that there are bigger fish in there somewhere.

Perhaps some who currently hold significant office....

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Interesting article in the Torygraph 2-3 days ago that totally fits with my knowledge of the historic attitudes of the GB elite and the little I've heard of US draft dodging.

When caught out we expect our guilty to do the decent thing. Think Profumo's charity work, or Aitken now a prison vicar. Think of all the cads locked in the library with a bottle of scotch and a service revolver. Cos if they don't, our elites will throw them under a bus to protect themselves.

While the yank elites, irrespective of party, will circle the wagons and protect their own.

Which explains why 4 Brits have had their lives ruined but not one Yank, even though Eppy was a Septic with an island in the Septic Virgin Islands.

Yanks gonna yank, basically. While our elites will endeavour to appear to behaving like gents, even if it's only to maintain the fiction that they are gents deserving of deference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

It's the small fish we're worried about. Big fish can look after themselves, take their chances.

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No. Septic vs GB attitudes. See above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

It's the small fish we're worried about. Big fish can look after themselves, take their chances.

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A man who can take his chances can earn 200 grand a week :-)