The standard meltdown and introspection over another dreadful Ashes

Tour has already begun :-)

I get the criticism but the constant demands for Bazball to be binned are puzzling.

We all know it needs to move to a new phase where the guys are better able to exercise judgement and adjust to situations. But Bazball has given us some of the best test cricket we've seen in 15 years and arguably the most exciting we've ever seen.

It has come horribly unstuck in Australia but so has every other England side for 40 years, bar one. What I've seen in these matches is a side who have complete mastery of these conditions and a side who haven't really got a clue about them. On top of that we just haven't performed well. Most of the batsmen have been well below their best and the fielding has been poor.

I think better judgement in the batting and some more precise plans for the bowling should be the priority. But playing in Australia isnt the yardstick for success. We just cannot do it... :-(

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Originally Posted by Peter

Tour has already begun :-)

I get the criticism but the constant demands for Bazball to be binned are puzzling.

We all know it needs to move to a new phase where the guys are better able to exercise judgement and adjust to situations. But Bazball has given us some of the best test cricket we've seen in 15 years and arguably the most exciting we've ever seen.

It has come horribly unstuck in Australia but so has every other England side for 40 years, bar one. What I've seen in these matches is a side who have complete mastery of these conditions and a side who haven't really got a clue about them. On top of that we just haven't performed well. Most of the batsmen have been well below their best and the fielding has been poor.

I think better judgement in the batting and some more precise plans for the bowling should be the priority. But playing in Australia isnt the yardstick for success. We just cannot do it... :-(

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It means all those journos who work with Sky don't have to say that the problem is the 100. With no CC cricket in the summer, we no longer have next cabs off the rank, we no longer have spinners learning their trade, and we no longer have batsmen, especially in the top 3, who can bat long and slow before then slogging on.

It's just deck chair re-arranging. It avoids having to admit that we won't win again given our set up. Aussies played Sheff Shield cricket as warm ups. They have the Big Bash without having to create something new to pay off the counties who lose out. Cos they have 6 states and they get money from the franchise teams using the stadia.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

It means all those journos who work with Sky don't have to say that the problem is the 100. With no CC cricket in the summer, we no longer have next cabs off the rank, we no longer have spinners learning their trade, and we no longer have batsmen, especially in the top 3, who can bat long and slow before then slogging on.

It's just deck chair re-arranging. It avoids having to admit that we won't win again given our set up. Aussies played Sheff Shield cricket as warm ups. They have the Big Bash without having to create something new to pay off the counties who lose out. Cos they have 6 states and they get money from the franchise teams using the stadia.

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I loathe the 100, should also can 50 over cricket, it just isn't relevant any more. County cricket/test matches and T20 only

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Originally Posted by PSRB

I loathe the 100, should also can 50 over cricket, it just isn't relevant any more. County cricket/test matches and T20 only

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My understanding from two friends who are very much ITK is this:

- The ECB had to get franchise cricket into England. There were/are too many counties so it couldn't be done that way. They had to create new teams which meant 'inventing' a new sport (The 100).

- The plan was always to run it for a few years and then sell the teams to the Indians who are setting up franchises around the world (I.e. Mubai Indians, MI Cape Town, MI New York, MI Abu Dhabi etc).

- Now they have bought Oval and they will now be MI London.

- The kits will all change to the respective IPL colours of each franchise that bought in this summer.

- The 100 format will subsequently revert to T20 cricket. Domestic T20 as we know it will remain as a feeder competition to the main event (not sure what it'll be called yet).

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Originally Posted by Rich

My understanding from two friends who are very much ITK is this:

- The ECB had to get franchise cricket into England. There were/are too many counties so it couldn't be done that way. They had to create new teams which meant 'inventing' a new sport (The 100).

- The plan was always to run it for a few years and then sell the teams to the Indians who are setting up franchises around the world (I.e. Mubai Indians, MI Cape Town, MI New York, MI Abu Dhabi etc).

- Now they have bought Oval and they will now be MI London.

- The kits will all change to the respective IPL colours of each franchise that bought in this summer.

- The 100 format will subsequently revert to T20 cricket. Domestic T20 as we know it will remain as a feeder competition to the main event (not sure what it'll be called yet).

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I had these stories as well. Shame, I quite enjoy the T20 Blast.

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Originally Posted by PSRB

I had these stories as well. Shame, I quite enjoy the T20 Blast.

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Yeah I enjoy it too. Will still be a thing though I believe moved to smaller grounds in the cases of the franchise teams (as the Indians have bought the grounds too). But I think it'll still be a decent event. Tenner a ticket... pack out some small venues. Plenty of beer.

What's not to like?

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

It means all those journos who work with Sky don't have to say that the problem is the 100. With no CC cricket in the summer, we no longer have next cabs off the rank, we no longer have spinners learning their trade, and we no longer have batsmen, especially in the top 3, who can bat long and slow before then slogging on.

It's just deck chair re-arranging. It avoids having to admit that we won't win again given our set up. Aussies played Sheff Shield cricket as warm ups. They have the Big Bash without having to create something new to pay off the counties who lose out. Cos they have 6 states and they get money from the franchise teams using the stadia.

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Hmmmm... . Not convinced that makes the big difference. We were ****e before any of that.

Let's say you knew nothing at all about cricket and I started explaining it to you- the significance of the pitch, conditions, seam movement. At some point i would reach the fact that we play with a different ball that has a very different seam and behaves differently.

Your natural reaction should be 'that is ****ing ridiculous'.... and it is!

First thing I would change. I don't care which ball we use but we should all use the same one.

And day/night tests have to go. Sorry, but they are a farce.

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Originally Posted by Rich

My understanding from two friends who are very much ITK is this:

- The ECB had to get franchise cricket into England. There were/are too many counties so it couldn't be done that way. They had to create new teams which meant 'inventing' a new sport (The 100).

- The plan was always to run it for a few years and then sell the teams to the Indians who are setting up franchises around the world (I.e. Mubai Indians, MI Cape Town, MI New York, MI Abu Dhabi etc).

- Now they have bought Oval and they will now be MI London.

- The kits will all change to the respective IPL colours of each franchise that bought in this summer.

- The 100 format will subsequently revert to T20 cricket. Domestic T20 as we know it will remain as a feeder competition to the main event (not sure what it'll be called yet).

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Which means that to make more money for IPL franchise owners, we've ruined the English summer sport.

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Originally Posted by Peter

Hmmmm... . Not convinced that makes the big difference. We were ****e before any of that.

Let's say you knew nothing at all about cricket and I started explaining it to you- the significance of the pitch, conditions, seam movement. At some point i would reach the fact that we play with a different ball that has a very different seam and behaves differently.

Your natural reaction should be 'that is ****ing ridiculous'.... and it is!

First thing I would change. I don't care which ball we use but we should all use the same one.

And day/night tests have to go. Sorry, but they are a farce.

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We would have more chance of having a pwoppa top 3 if we played CC matches all summer long as before as opposed to telling young batsmen that slogging in mid-summer is all that pays.

And day-night matches just give an advantage to the Aussies that they won't give up.

We should play 2 tests a summer starting under lights at 4am with a tape ball so when the Ashes come 'round, we have experience of that and they don't.

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Originally Posted by Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult

We would have more chance of having a pwoppa top 3 if we played CC matches all summer long as before as opposed to telling young batsmen that slogging in mid-summer is all that pays.

And day-night matches just give an advantage to the Aussies that they won't give up.

We should play 2 tests a summer starting under lights at 4am with a tape ball so when the Ashes come 'round, we have experience of that and they don't.

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All for that, apart from the day/night bit. I jist think it ruins the game. I hate it.

We should use the kookaburra ball. Make bowlers work harder for their wickets. Force them to develop accuracy, stamina and specific plans. That was really noticeable in the last test. When Australia weren't getting it done in the final innings, each bowler came back witg a different plan and bowled to it perfectly. Boland with the keeper up, bringing the ball in. Cummins going wider on tje crease and bowling fuller at the stumps. Starc changing ends and coming round the wicket. They all worked.

These are brilliant bowlers but they don't rely on brilliance. They are able to adjust and execute a different plan when they need to. All we do is bang it in short if we aren't getting anywhere.

I agree it would be great to see more high quality red ball cricket in our summer but the county game needs the income.

The spinner is a bigger issue. I just don't know how you solve that. Bit maybe switching balls, and stopping medium pace dobbers from gobbling all fhe wickets will mean counties have to look at spin options.

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Originally Posted by Peter

All for that, apart from the day/night bit. I jist think it ruins the game. I hate it.

We should use the kookaburra ball. Make bowlers work harder for their wickets. Force them to develop accuracy, stamina and specific plans. That was really noticeable in the last test. When Australia weren't getting it done in the final innings, each bowler came back witg a different plan and bowled to it perfectly. Boland with the keeper up, bringing the ball in. Cummins going wider on tje crease and bowling fuller at the stumps. Starc changing ends and coming round the wicket. They all worked.

These are brilliant bowlers but they don't rely on brilliance. They are able to adjust and execute a different plan when they need to. All we do is bang it in short if we aren't getting anywhere.

I agree it would be great to see more high quality red ball cricket in our summer but the county game needs the income.

The spinner is a bigger issue. I just don't know how you solve that. Bit maybe switching balls, and stopping medium pace dobbers from gobbling all fhe wickets will mean counties have to look at spin options.

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I prefer the Dukes, think everything is too much towards the batter.

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Originally Posted by PSRB

I prefer the Dukes, think everything is too much towards the batter.

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Agree. Bowling accurately is still rewarded with a Duke's (I should know because I wasn't very good at that bit).

But yes; the art of bowling should be rewarded. Which means a prominent seam, some grass/moisture left in a pitch and boundaries that aren't 60m long. If not then might as well just be done with bowlers; play 11 batsmen and set up bowling machines at either end.

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Originally Posted by Rich

Agree. Bowling accurately is still rewarded with a Duke's (I should know because I wasn't very good at that bit).

But yes; the art of bowling should be rewarded. Which means a prominent seam, some grass/moisture left in a pitch and boundaries that aren't 60m long. If not then might as well just be done with bowlers; play 11 batsmen and set up bowling machines at either end.

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I think the Australian bowlers have seen fair reward for bowling accurately in this series.

The main point is we should all use the same ball in test cricket.