A few weeks ago we were winning the league, Treble etc

I've been abroad now and have some mental flu.

what's happened?

The way we set up against Chelsea and Aston Villa is giving me great concerns. I know we are very short at the back but Arteta is starting to worry me again.

Hopefully we can just bumble our way along where others drop points.

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Originally Posted by Pat Vegas

I've been abroad now and have some mental flu.

what's happened?

The way we set up against Chelsea and Aston Villa is giving me great concerns. I know we are very short at the back but Arteta is starting to worry me again.

Hopefully we can just bumble our way along where others drop points.

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The injuries are a constant problem.

But it is pretty clear after 8 games that we are not scoring enough goals away from home. 9 in 8 games. 5 of them from set pieces. We didn't score from open play in an away game until November. Only once have we gone two goals ahead in an away game.

All of this means we really need to keep clean sheets to win consistently away from home. And we aren't doing it at the moment.

There is your problem. Not enough goals.

At home we are fine. So far....

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Originally Posted by Peter

The injuries are a constant problem.

But it is pretty clear after 8 games that we are not scoring enough goals away from home. 9 in 8 games. 5 of them from set pieces. We didn't score from open play in an away game until November. Only once have we gone two goals ahead in an away game.

All of this means we really need to keep clean sheets to win consistently away from home. And we aren't doing it at the moment.

There is your problem. Not enough goals.

At home we are fine. So far....

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Also feel playing us has that 'cup final' feel for the opposition.

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Originally Posted by Pat Vegas

Also feel playing us has that 'cup final' feel for the opposition.

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That feels like another excuse......

Winning the league is really difficult. You cant afford constant problems, you cant afford to be bad at things, and you cant afford excuses.

We still don't look capable of beating the best sides away from home. That puts pressure on you to be more or less perfect against everyone else. And we are not.....

Newcastle is the only away game where we have won without keeping a clean sheet. And that was with a 96th minute winner.

Those margins are too tight to be sustainable. Particularly if you keep losing defenders.

you've to score more goals, in the football match, than your opponent scores".

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Originally Posted by Peter

The injuries are a constant problem.

But it is pretty clear after 8 games that we are not scoring enough goals away from home. 9 in 8 games. 5 of them from set pieces. We didn't score from open play in an away game until November. Only once have we gone two goals ahead in an away game.

All of this means we really need to keep clean sheets to win consistently away from home. And we aren't doing it at the moment.

There is your problem. Not enough goals.

At home we are fine. So far....

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Given the injuries and the relatively small number of games played so far it's too early to say where the problem is. Note that the problem has not stopped us from being top of the league regardless.

Given where we are and the injuries we have had and the lack of an opponent on top form, it's hard not to see us as favourites at this point. But as Peter keeps pointing out, the margins are too fine to think we can maintain this over the next 23 games.

A good run with the first choice back four, midfield and with Havertz/Gyokeres up front will tell us more, but I think it's likely such a run would put some distance between us and City.

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Originally Posted by WES

Given the injuries and the relatively small number of games played so far it's too early to say where the problem is. Note that the problem has not stopped us from being top of the league regardless.

Given where we are and the injuries we have had and the lack of an opponent on top form, it's hard not to see us as favourites at this point. But as Peter keeps pointing out, the margins are too fine to think we can maintain this over the next 23 games.

A good run with the first choice back four, midfield and with Havertz/Gyokeres up front will tell us more, but I think it's likely such a run would put some distance between us and City.

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Unfortunately, the chances of us getting to a stage where we can have a run of games with everyone available seem lower than a snake's *******s.

Let's be clear- we are only top of the league because everyone else has been poor. Last season the same tally would have seen us 5 points behind Liverpool which, I think, is exactly where we were.

33 points from 15 games is not really title winning form. We are going to have to improve

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Originally Posted by Peter

Unfortunately, the chances of us getting to a stage where we can have a run of games with everyone available seem lower than a snake's *******s.

Let's be clear- we are only top of the league because everyone else has been poor. Last season the same tally would have seen us 5 points behind Liverpool which, I think, is exactly where we were.

33 points from 15 games is not really title winning form. We are going to have to improve

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Max Dowman out for 2 months :hehe:

We teach them how to be Arsenal players early doors nowadays :-)

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Originally Posted by Peter

Unfortunately, the chances of us getting to a stage where we can have a run of games with everyone available seem lower than a snake's *******s.

Let's be clear- we are only top of the league because everyone else has been poor. Last season the same tally would have seen us 5 points behind Liverpool which, I think, is exactly where we were.

33 points from 15 games is not really title winning form. We are going to have to improve

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Prior to the Villa game we were on a pace for 90 points which is very much title winning form

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Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

you've to score more goals, in the football match, than your opponent scores".

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'Until they change the rules of the game, set pieces will always win and lose you football matches, and you ignore them at your peril'

The late, great Graham Taylor. And he was right :-)

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Originally Posted by WES

Prior to the Villa game we were on a pace for 90 points which is very much title winning form

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89.3 actually :-)

And is 90 points enough? Apart from last season, where Liverpool didn't need to reach it, the only title in the last 10 years that you could have won with 90 points was 20/21.

In 22/23, City did finish on 89 points. But they were on 88 with two games remaining, had won 12 in a row and were chasing a treble. Had we forced them to do so, I think we can assume they would have fielded strong sides in fhe two remaining games and scraped their way to 90....

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Originally Posted by WES

Max Dowman out for 2 months :hehe:

We teach them how to be Arsenal players early doors nowadays :-)

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Important that he learns the ropes :-)

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Originally Posted by Herbert Augustus Chapman

you've to score more goals, in the football match, than your opponent scores".

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Cloughie knew, see. He himself was a top striker, back in his day.

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Originally Posted by WES

Given the injuries and the relatively small number of games played so far it's too early to say where the problem is. Note that the problem has not stopped us from being top of the league regardless.

Given where we are and the injuries we have had and the lack of an opponent on top form, it's hard not to see us as favourites at this point. But as Peter keeps pointing out, the margins are too fine to think we can maintain this over the next 23 games.

A good run with the first choice back four, midfield and with Havertz/Gyokeres up front will tell us more, but I think it's likely such a run would put some distance between us and City.

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Right. We're top and still have plenty of room, and potential, for improvement.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

Cloughie knew, see. He himself was a top striker, back in his day.

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He was indeed. I believe he 'knew where the goal was'.

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Originally Posted by Peter

He was indeed. I believe he 'knew where the goal was'.

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his career and stats,quite how lethal he was.

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Originally Posted by Peter

89.3 actually :-)

And is 90 points enough? Apart from last season, where Liverpool didn't need to reach it, the only title in the last 10 years that you could have won with 90 points was 20/21.

In 22/23, City did finish on 89 points. But they were on 88 with two games remaining, had won 12 in a row and were chasing a treble. Had we forced them to do so, I think we can assume they would have fielded strong sides in fhe two remaining games and scraped their way to 90....

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Statistically though, teams that win the league generally aren't tracking for 90 points at this stage of the season. The usual cadence is to hit form in the new year and go on a run that takes your tally to the 90 point mark. As you have shown with your Man City example, 12 wins in a row... After 19 games in that season, Man City were on 42 points, tracking for 84 points.

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Originally Posted by Maravilloso Marvo

Statistically though, teams that win the league generally aren't tracking for 90 points at this stage of the season. The usual cadence is to hit form in the new year and go on a run that takes your tally to the 90 point mark. As you have shown with your Man City example, 12 wins in a row... After 19 games in that season, Man City were on 42 points, tracking for 84 points.

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I think it is more that that is what City do. Liverpool's two title wins involved fast starts. Outside of City there are few other examples in the last 10 years....

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Originally Posted by Peter

I think it is more that that is what City do. Liverpool's two title wins involved fast starts. Outside of City there are few other examples in the last 10 years....

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Didn't Wenger win loads of games in a row to snatch a title.

Oh. Last ten years, you say :-\

Okay, I've done the research... Below shows the perecentage of the total point tally to win the league at the halfway point of the season.

Red, you are thinking about 2002 I guess.

If you average it out over these 25 years, it comes out at exactly 50% at the halfway point :homer:

2000 Man Utd 47%
2001 Man Utd 54%
2002 Arsenal 41%
2003 Man Utd 47%
2004 Arsenal 50%
2005 Chelsea 48%
2006 Chelsea 57%
2007 Man Utd 53%
2008 Man Utd 52%
2009 Man Utd 46%
2010 Chelsea 49%
2011 Man Utd 51%
2012 Man City 51%
2013 Man Utd 52%
2014 Man City 48%
2015 Chelsea 53%
2016 Leicester 48%
2017 Chelsea 53%
2018 Man City 55%
2019 Man City 45%
2020 Liverpool 56%
2021 Man City 48%
2022 Man City 51%
2023 Man City 47%
2024 Man City 44%
2025 Liverpool 55%

Yes. Thank you, MM. Time flies, dunnit :-\

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Originally Posted by Maravilloso Marvo

Okay, I've done the research... Below shows the perecentage of the total point tally to win the league at the halfway point of the season.

Red, you are thinking about 2002 I guess.

If you average it out over these 25 years, it comes out at exactly 50% at the halfway point :homer:

2000 Man Utd 47%
2001 Man Utd 54%
2002 Arsenal 41%
2003 Man Utd 47%
2004 Arsenal 50%
2005 Chelsea 48%
2006 Chelsea 57%
2007 Man Utd 53%
2008 Man Utd 52%
2009 Man Utd 46%
2010 Chelsea 49%
2011 Man Utd 51%
2012 Man City 51%
2013 Man Utd 52%
2014 Man City 48%
2015 Chelsea 53%
2016 Leicester 48%
2017 Chelsea 53%
2018 Man City 55%
2019 Man City 45%
2020 Liverpool 56%
2021 Man City 48%
2022 Man City 51%
2023 Man City 47%
2024 Man City 44%
2025 Liverpool 55%

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Admirable research!

So, in the last ten years, the rule seems to be that the only way to beat City to the title is to start fast, get ahead, and stay ahead.

We tried that once- it didn't work. And we tried chasing them- didn't work.

Third time lucky :-)

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Originally Posted by Peter

Admirable research!

So, in the last ten years, the rule seems to be that the only way to beat City to the title is to start fast, get ahead, and stay ahead.

We tried that once- it didn't work. And we tried chasing them- didn't work.

Third time lucky :-)

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I thought we'd already blown it this year? City's title to lose now and all that...?

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Originally Posted by Maravilloso Marvo

I thought we'd already blown it this year? City's title to lose now and all that...?

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Well, it is in their hands..... :-)

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Originally Posted by Maravilloso Marvo

I thought we'd already blown it this year? City's title to lose now and all that...?

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For me, it's ALWAYS theirs to lose.

This is our first season with a "billion-pound" first team squad so we still don't know if it's the RIGHT squad. We may have to have a few more goes at it, make some mistakes; get different players, better players. Mikel has earned that.

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Originally Posted by redgunamo

For me, it's ALWAYS theirs to lose.

This is our first season with a "billion-pound" first team squad so we still don't know if it's the RIGHT squad. We may have to have a few more goes at it, make some mistakes; get different players, better players. Mikel has earned that.

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If we could keep everyone fit, we'd be sorted. Imagine having Willy and Gabby together at the back. Triphop and Hinchappy both look very good, but the most important partnership on the pitch is the CHs.